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203 responses total.
I vote for number 3, but allow people to download the files, not just read or delete them. I sometimes fetch files up to 1 or even 1.5M and occasionally forget to delete them immediately after downloading, or even forget to download. I thought the size of file, rather than the type, was what you were after (no on 4). No on banning ftp - I thought only paid members to could ftp files to grex anyway.
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(I'd like to see a combo of #3 and the present system. the way I see it, if such a program as described in suggestion #3 ran once or twice a day, (at least), that would relieve some of the burden on staff. give the user about a week or so to correct the problem before going in manually, if necessary.) (is there an upper limit on the size of files that can be FTP'd/emailed to Grex? having that might deter someone from transferring a large file, as it would have to be broken into pieces first.) (also, I seem to remember a "bad neighbor" list of the top 20 or so disk users. did that become more trouble than it was worth?)
I haven't been directly involved in the disk problem, but I'm guessing the "bad neighbor" list is one of those ideas that doesn't scale well. When Grex was a small system, where most users participated in the conferences or in party, or had friends who did, showing up on such a list was presumably a motivation to do something about it. With a system the size Grex is today, with many of the disk hogs "just passing through," and not knowing what Grex is or anything about anybody else who uses or runs it, I'm guessing such a list would have much less of an effect.
(that was my hunch. still, it was always good to have a scale of the problem, which is something that is readily obvious to staffers, but not so apparent to the rest of us until we can't read conferences.) ;)
Could a file limit size be set on FTP which would be sufficient for people to upload "reasonable things" but which would block most software packages and binary files? Could exceptions to that file limit size be given by staff upon application? If you were worried about people mailing the stuff to Grex, you'd have to put a similar size limit on mail files.
What is wrong with a small binary file? I use grex to fetch and download and upload binary files all the time - wordperfect/DOS, small DOS programs, an occasional picture of someone's kids that arrives in e-mail. Why is the nature of the file important rather than the size of it? Why are 100 pages of text acceptable but 10K of binary file not?
There isn't anything wrong with small binary files that just pass through Grex once on the way to somewhere else. People aren't supposed to make image files web-accessible, but that's a separate issue. Once they're web-accessible, they pass through Grex's internet link every time somebody accesses the person web page.
Not if they are linked to the main page (you have to select them to see them).
How does the web server know that? How do we enforce this with a minimum of staff time?
How is it any different what sort of file you have on your home page, whether a 100K text file or a 100K image file? Set a size limit, not an arbitrary statement that images are bad and other things are good. (I am about to help grex out by cutting up my 15K website into smaller pieces, only one of which will load at a time with links to the others.) Do you want to set some limit on the total bytes allowed in the www directory?
People tend to create cluelessly huge websites because of graphics, not text.
So write a program that detects huge websites. I see nothing wrong with having a couple of small graphics files linked from a home page that is also small, the whole totalling less than many text only pages. Or make up some rule about the maximum size of a home page (index.htm(l)) and find a way to enforce that.
Re #6: There *is* a limit on the size of incoming mail files. I've had a few digests of an email list I'm on bounced because they were over the limit. I think a limit on the size of incoming FTP files would be reasonable, and would slow down some of the people trying to bring in eggdrop. I occasionally FTP things here that I need to mail (resumes, mostly) but they're all well under 200K.
I have used grex (and am currently using mnet) to get files up to 2M, that I fetch with ftp andthen download with ymodem or kermit. I would find this sort of restriction a real pain, and it would encoruage me not to be a member since I would then have to pay an ISP for the priviliege to use FTP to get files. I try not to do this during peak times such as 4 pm or 8 pm or midnight. Just occasionally issuing warnings to people who are over the limit significantly (1M plus email) should be adequate, I think. It wokrked for me when I forgot to empty old files out (I just deleted about a third of what I had to get down to 700K, smoe of which is binary files). I have two small image files that are smaller than my text-only website, which I email to people, and would object strongly if there were a ban on binary files being received, sent or stored. I also have a small DOS program and sometimes have others. They are not causing anybody any problems. Can some program be written that will recognize eggdrop and other common banned programs and delete them?
What if the restriction on FTPing large files was only on non-members? Members are unlikely to fill up the disk anyway, since they're aware of the problem.
To one subset of users:
I have not spoken to Val about this recently, this is her own spin.
I *did* email Anne a week before this item - it's getting silly.
To another subset of users (Keesan and her clones):
Sending your junk to grex to move elsewhere, via ftp one way and
*modem another is just plain stupid - which comes as absolutely no
suprise. The same is true for attachments to email.
The following is a _SIMPLE_ example of a dolt:
==================
genius : units
==================
3:11pm up 12 days, 23:41, 41 users, load average: 2.59, 2.20, 2.04
User tty login@ idle JCPU PCPU what
genius ttys4 12:54pm 5:55 13 pico.real -z psybnc.conf
------------------
total 11
drwxr-xr-x 3 genius units 512 Mar 3 14:17 .
drwxr-xr-x 67 root wheel 2560 Mar 3 08:03 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 genius units 778 Mar 3 08:03 .cfonce
-rw-r--r-- 1 genius units 664 Mar 3 08:03 .cshrc
-rw-r--r-- 1 genius units 725 Mar 3 08:03 .login
-rw-r--r-- 1 genius units 1245 Mar 3 08:03 .mailrc
-rw------- 1 genius units 232 Mar 3 08:03 .plan
drwxr-xr-x 4 genius units 512 Mar 3 14:20 prv
-rw------- 1 root daemon 0 Mar 3 09:20 root-deleted-your-bnc
------------------
total 1172
drwxr-xr-x 4 genius units 512 Mar 3 14:20 .
drwxr-xr-x 3 genius units 512 Mar 3 14:17 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 genius units 194560 Mar 3 12:37 bnc.tar
drwxr-xr-x 2 genius units 1024 Mar 3 13:50 bnc2.8.2
-rw-r--r-- 1 genius units 983040 Mar 3 14:18 psyBNC2.2.1.tar
drwxr-xr-x 9 genius units 512 Mar 3 15:06 psybnc
==================
This clown has HAD a warning, and persists. Why persist in trying to be
polite?
Further, this clown is not a bbs-user, or a party-contributor.. Why would
Grex wait even a MOMENT before smearing it into sludge?
It's not a contributing guest; it's not a member: It's a twit.. Staff has to
deal with these in ungodly numbers, (as I ain't a staffer, I can't define it
further - ask them).
Another point: some deviates actually scream for "more disks and space" - as
though this is a solution. The lack of space is a symptom.
A final point I'll make, and then I'll let you "folks" deal: certain
"gentle-folk" want a higly parameterized solution.. They actually demand
software. Wonderful, software is a Good Thing (tm) - Who is to write it?
When? To do what? How long will it take? (occasionally, folks try to suggest
*I* write a solution - umm, yeah.. right: staff wants me like Bubonic Plague
- I am (and remain) Politically Incorrect.
Val has specified a problem. This problem is both technical, (meaning
solvable), and political, (meaning you better grasp Reality with both
hands). She's asked for SOLUTIONS - not "votes" and not parameters.. She's
OFFERED some possibilities - which means she expects YOU GUYS to discuss
them.
She's already mentioned Quota will not work.. And, to date, not one user to
include scg has, in party, made a goddamned bit of sense.
You have a MAJOR PROBLEM - no, it is NOT trivial when shit locks up or dumps
users.. Time to think it over.
Re #17: How is using Grex to email my resumes "stupid"? It's the only really stable email account I've got. You've done a great job pointing out the problem. Where's your suggestion for fixing it? Here's a suggestion that I suspect will be unpopular: Assign one disk for paying members, assign another for non-members. Run a script that deletes all files that are larger than a set size on the non-member disk, regardless of content. Alternatively, just delete the home directory of any non-member that's over a certain size.
re 18:
Are you a member? FTP, like email and lynx (aka web ftp) is a
privelege. Far be it from me to define "membership".
If grex is the "only really stable email.." then it's time to think
about membership, to my mind..
Solutions:
I'm noty a root, and almost anything I mention immediately gets
beaten to death by grexies.. At this stage, it's better I do NOT
point out solutions.
Your idea:
yeah, but the drive itself means little - would work as of now.. I
suspect the crazies will jump all over the idea, in any event.
Re #19: I think, though, that if you're going to lambast people for not doing anything, the onus is on you to show how they could do something. If you can't think of any solutions, it's hardly fair to criticize others for not coming up with any. No, I'm not currently a member. If Grex decided to ban incoming FTP and email attachments altogether, than I wouldn't have any use for the place and I'd have no reason to become one, either. As it is, I've been planning on it as soon as I get money ahead. Currently I'm in the middle of a not particularly successful job hunt. And yes, the idea would work whether or not the two were on seperate drives. Moving members to a seperate drive (or just a seperate partition) would, however, make the script easier to write, and would also prevent members from being inconvenienced if some vandal fills up the non-member drive. I think if I *were* a member I'd hesitate more to suggest this. As it is, I'm not really calling for any special privilage for *myself*.
Re 17, I do not 'send my junk to grex', I download files from other places so that I can then transfer them (via Kermit) to my own computer and use them there. They are not much good to me on someone else's computer. I receive attachment in my email because people send them to me - what is so stupid about letting people send me email? I think you have some assumption that is not correct. I can also get 1M files without ftp, by regular download from a website. I try to remember to delete them as soon as I have downloaded them to my own computer. I much prefer pine and lynx to Netscape. I also send attachments to people, some of whom are grex members, and these attachments are binary files, and they spend some time in my home directory. And I store some files there, some of which are binary, so that I can access them from various phone numbers. I think the biggest files I have are text files.
It's not really practical to put members' directoies on one disk and nonmembers' on another, because people move on and off the membership list. We'd have to move their directories whenever that happened, which seems like a lot of trouble.
Creating a separate "members" disk also creates a feeling of "I paid for it, so I deserve better treatment" rather than "I donated for the good of grex", which means members end up feeling little responsibility to improve the lot of non-members, which in the long run reduces the amount of new blood.
Right, that's been Grex's general philosophy about member perks since the beginning.
I agree, pretty strongly, but I think this means Marcus & Mark & I are part of what pfv means when he says "the crazies will jump all over the idea". (OK with me, if so.)
More frequent reminders might be a good place to start. I don't bring over huge files to my Grex account, but I use it for mail, which has the tendency to accumulate over time. I go through and delete bunches of old mail when I happen to think of it and notice I'm over the disk space limit -- but generally I notice before staff does; only once have I received a reminder about this. This won't solve the problem of disk hogs who are just passing through, but I suspect I'm not the only person out there who does care, is absentminded, and responds well to gentle pressure.
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I think we have spare hard drives as it is. No additional money needed to install, just some staff time...
money, space and staff time were the original "bottom-line" Add space? Same problems will grow. Older users? Same-same. NEW USERS? same-same..
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I think we just happened to get a good deal on a bunch of 2-gig drives? pfv's probably right. Adding space will only delay the problem, not fix it.
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The problem is never one twit filling the drive. It's that we get a constant influx of twits who each fill a little chunk. Staff warns them, but being twits they don't care, and the accounts generally aren't deleted. Anyway, from the looks of it we're going to talk this to death and ultimately do nothing, again.
I feel the need to comment on Ryan's comment that Grex has a lot of money in the bank: we do have money in the bank, but not as much as we used to. See the treasurer's report for details. I think it's time we shed the notion that Grex is rich.
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There *is* some kind of 2GB filesystem limit.
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Something like that.
Is there also a limit on number of partitions?
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