Discuss depression here.  Continued from the bummed item.

25 responses total.

From the bummed item, last 45 responses.

#99 Carolyn Woodroofe(lynne) on Mon Apr  1 16:40:45 2002:
 I got jealous.  Basically, that's all there was to it...I was drunk, i have
 been consistently depressed for the last month, and I got upset over 
 something that I didn't have much cause to get upset over.  Problem is that
 he *really* hates it when I do that--we'd nearly broken up in January over
 the same thing--and I went through a *very* bad night a couple weeks ago,
 some of which spilled over, and he was still a little upset about that. So
 I don't think he'd forgive me, and I don't think it's worth it to crawl 
 back and point at my brand-new Zoloft prescription and the livid scratches
 on my forearm and say "see, it wasn't my fault!".  I'm tired of blaming
 other things; I'm tired of apologizing, and I'm tired of my needs not 
 really getting met...
 I feel a little better for having talked to someone and arranged for therapy.
 I also have high hopes that the medication will help, although I'm *really*
 hoping it will kick in before two weeks' time.  Looking back, I have a
 history of overreacting and getting easily depressed (although it's never
 lasted this long before), and I have a couple of not-very-stable immediate
 family members.  So I think medication and/or therapy are likely overdue.
#100 Mary Remmers(mary) on Mon Apr  1 17:18:49 2002:
 <scribbled>
#101 Mary Remmers(mary) on Mon Apr  1 17:30:38 2002:
 <scribbled>
#102 Julie, the Captain's Wife(morwen) on Mon Apr  1 18:43:14 2002:
 resp:93 resp:94 But, bhelliom Blue Rose knows that this is the item
 for  seeming whiney.  That's why it is the Bummed Item.  

 If it takes a while, try just posting one of them per day.  Or else 
 just break down and mention 'em all.  
#103 The Accidental Purist(other) on Mon Apr  1 19:36:52 2002:
 Lynne, this is going to sound painfully obvious, but if you're having a 
 problem with depression, you shouldn't be drinking alcohol.  It's like 
 taking a spike in the head for a headache.
#104 John Ellis Perry Jr.(jep) on Tue Apr  2 10:19:53 2002:
 Lynne, I started taking Zoloft a few weeks ago for my depression.  I 
 felt like you; "I sure hope this stuff kicks in fast because I can't 
 take it any more".  It seemed to start helping some after a few days.  
 The day I forgot to take it, I had a horrible "down" day.  Now, a 
 couple of weeks later, I'm feeling a lot better than I was.  Help is on 
 the way.  Give it a chance to get there.
 
 You're doing the right things in going to therapy and getting medical 
 help.  It'll help you.  It's helping me, anyway.
#105 Carolyn Woodroofe(lynne) on Tue Apr  2 10:20:37 2002:
 True. Somehow, one small glass of white wine with dinner seemed a lot more
 innocuous than it was.
 My thanks to those that expressed concern.  I was a little distracted when
 posting yesterday.
#106 Carolyn Woodroofe(lynne) on Tue Apr  2 10:25:11 2002:
 jep slipped in...I've been following your reports on Zoloft, and was 
 relatively pleased when the doctor suggested it, since it does seem to be
 helping you a lot.
 I'm feeling a little less psycho today, which is good because I think I can
 make it through a day at work.  I'm a little concerned about the night.  I'll
 find someone to stay with me (roomie did it last night, is busy tonight)
 because I really don't want to have to spend the night in the infirmary.
#107 John Ellis Perry Jr.(jep) on Tue Apr  2 11:12:50 2002:
 It is a measure of how well the Zoloft is working (or something is 
 working) that I'm able to respond about your problem at all.  A few 
 weeks ago, I didn't have any ability to be much concerned about anyone 
 else.  My own problems were overwhelming me.  Now, my problems are 
 still serious, but I'm dealing with them to some extent.  I'm 
 definitely better off now.  It's nice to be able to care about other 
 people again.
#108 Twila Oxley Price(anderyn) on Tue Apr  2 11:28:13 2002:
 That is nice, John. And I've mentioned before about the Zoloft (for me, at
 least) kicking in to some extent a few days into my first taking it. I've
 taken it for several years now, and never had a problem. Good luck, lynne,
 and I hope that you feel much less depressed soon.
#109 Insert name here(bhelliom) on Tue Apr  2 12:56:50 2002:
 <scribbled>
#110 Insert name here(bhelliom) on Tue Apr  2 12:59:37 2002:
 You know you're depressed when thinking about the possibility of a 
 friend moving about an hour away gives you the weepies for nearly two 
 hours.
 
 I don't know about any of you who are seeing or have seen therapists, 
 but the process of finding one seems to be more difficult and 
 frustrating than finding a good OB/GYN . ..  at least the women 
 probably understand.
 
 The whole process, depending on if you're at the mercy of your 
 insurance company or not, can make you feel worse.  So I just recently 
 decided that my health insurance company, which in other areas is very 
 good, to--why mince words--fuck off, and have decided to find my own 
 therapist outside the system.  At this juncture, it helps to have a 
 friend that is a psychologist who can ask a colleague for 
 recommendations. Certainly it's something I want to get a handle on 
 before I do anything else major in my life. Call it an investment. 
 
 RE # 102 yeah . . . I know that this is the item for that.  Still, I 
 tend to have this fear of seeming two whiny or appearing to grab at 
 attention.  I know people who in fact do that, and it's never very 
 pretty an d always anoying to watch.  Hence my tendancy not to mention 
 things that bother me if someone is discussing a problem, unless I'm 
 sharing a similar experience.  But that all said and done, I'm not at 
 all opposed to doing so when I feel comfortable doing it.
 
#111 Eskarina Smith(eskarina) on Tue Apr  2 13:52:35 2002:
 Yeah, I tried getting a therapist at the free student counseling place on
 campus last semester.  It was the first time I'd ever done such a thing, and
 I expected it to be a lot different than it was.
 
 I started telling her about how when I get stressed I start self-destructing
 and I wanted to find ways to stop and her reaction was pretty much "just stop
 then".  She didn't offer much in the way of direct help... but the
 conversations I had with my friends about how frustrated I was with her
 reactions ended up proving way helpful.  I also didn't feel like she listened
 to me, she mostly just talked.
 
 I'm bummed because I'm starting to get buried in my schoolwork, and as luck
 would have it, am swirling back into self-destruct mode.
 
 "Just stop then", right?  grr.
#112 designed by a  nincompoop(oval) on Tue Apr  2 14:00:47 2002:
 
 i went to a therapist once for something like 3 sessions, and all she did was
 ask to keep a dream journal and look at me like i was crazy when i'd talk to
 her or read my dreams. it helped because i decided she was a bitch and i
 was crazy only because i was paying her for this.
 
#113 Rane Curl(rcurl) on Tue Apr  2 14:14:53 2002:
 Pretty smart therapist....very effective, it seems. 
 
 I think that their behavior like this is to avoid just telling you you
 are crazy. 
#114 designed by a  nincompoop(oval) on Tue Apr  2 14:23:31 2002:
 
 i bet they get really sick of hearing peoples' shit all day.
 
 although my dad's therapist is a paraplegic <--sp? and apparently very very
 good. i imagine it's hard to whine about the little things to a man who can't
 walk...
 
#115 Carolyn Woodroofe(lynne) on Tue Apr  2 15:17:14 2002:
 I'm stuck in the MIT system because they're my health insurance.  Apparently
 a couple of my friends have gone there and been helped, which is reassuring.
 It's really sort of sick the way MIT brings out the insanity in everyone.  I
 was thinking earlier about how nearly all of my close friends have been 
 actively bitching or quietly very depressed about how unhappy they are out
 here, especially in the past few weeks.  Possibly I'm a. very susceptible to
 peer pressure or b. breaking under the strain of trying to make things 
 better for everyone else.
 I ran into Hector in the hall today.  I started crying after a relatively
 casual comment--again.  He got very concerned about it, and said he's not
 mad at me, he just hates it when I do things like I did on Friday night.
 And that he's not going anywhere.  Of the available options, he is by far the
 person I would most want around in a situation like this, and it means a lot
 to me that he'll be there while I try to fix myself.  He'll be keeping me
 company tonight to make sure I don't hurt myself.
#116 Eskarina Smith(eskarina) on Tue Apr  2 16:04:50 2002:
 I just went to the MSU thing because I didn't want to have to tell my parents
 I was getting therapy.  I'm not sure if their health insurance would cover
 that sort of thing or not.
 
 Sucks to hear that about MIT.  What are you studying there?
 
 i have a friend who is going to MIT next year, and now I'm scared for her.
#117 John Ellis Perry Jr.(jep) on Tue Apr  2 16:22:58 2002:
 re #110: My health insurance pays for a maximum of 20 visits, but might 
 only cover 10 in my case.  If I still think I need therapy after they 
 stop covering me, which I expect I will, I'll have to pay for it.  What 
 the heck -- this is my life we're talking about.  I mean whether I live 
 or die.  It's worth whatever money it costs.
 
 I think I was pretty fortunate in that my 2nd therapist is being pretty 
 helpful.  Maybe it's that anyone would have helped me; I was in a 
 pretty bad place when I started going.  It's hard for me to know how 
 good he is.  I've never been to a therapist before.  I didn't know what 
 to expect.  I still don't know what's coming down the road.  I do think 
 he's helping me, though.
#118 Military Insanity(senna) on Tue Apr  2 22:08:47 2002:
 Why would it be only 10 visits (I almost typed vsts, which is the shorthand
 I use at work) in your case?
 
 I should point out that clinical assessment is NOT something I deal with at
 work.  It's everything else.
#119 John Ellis Perry Jr.(jep) on Tue Apr  2 22:11:02 2002:
 My therapist told me that there's no guarantee MCARE will let me use 
 all 20 allowable mental health treatments for 1 problem.  They did pre-
 guarantee 10 visits, though.  I've done 6 or 7 of those 10, so I guess 
 I'll find out pretty soon if they'll cover another 10.
#120 Military Insanity(senna) on Tue Apr  2 23:00:47 2002:
 Very interesting.  If done right, it should depend on input from the
 therapist--I can request authorizations for most outpatient procedures at St.
 Joe's, but I have nothing to do with auths in mental health.  The companies
 always want specific info.  The good news, to me, is that it sounds an awful
 lot like the therapist is hedging his bets, and if he really thinks you need
 more visits, you've got a good chance of getting them.  That is, if he was
 actually using the "no guarantee" phraseology.  I know MCDR (MCare's mental
 health administrator) sends us auth extensions periodically, many to well over
 ten visits, so it's not unheard of.
#121 Bjorn Arnesen(vidar) on Tue Apr  2 23:38:37 2002:
 IBB I think I may have passed by a certain high school friend (whose 
 name I won't mention since people here seem to think I'm obsessed with 
 him) today as I was leaving college without realizing who he was.
#122 Captain Jack Lumen(jaklumen) on Wed Apr  3 03:07:17 2002:
 help, I'm stuck in a rut and I can't get out.
 
 Depression, you say?  Wish I could help myself.
#123 Eskarina Smith(eskarina) on Wed Apr  3 08:41:32 2002:
 I'm starting to wonder if I know anyone who ISN'T depressed right now.
 
 What do you think it is?
#124 Reverend Salvador Dali Parton(happyboy) on Wed Apr  3 08:47:06 2002:
 misery loves company.  find some less whiney friends.
#125 Mark A. Conger(aruba) on Wed Apr  3 09:22:50 2002:
 It's the time of year, especially the time of the school year.
#126 Carolyn Woodroofe(lynne) on Wed Apr  3 09:47:06 2002:
 I had my first therapy session today.  I wasn't terrifically impressed, but
 will give it another couple of sessions before I give up.
 Thankfully, I am *much* calmer than I was two days ago.  I'm not sure if it's
 the Zoloft kicking in, the depression cycle easing out of Hell mode, or some
 personal stresses easing up--likely a combination.  It's good to not be in
 free fall anymore, whatever the cause.
 eskarina:  I'm studying chemistry at MIT.  Sometimes I think it's studying me.
 What is your friend coming here for?  And PhD or MA?  I think the two-year 
 programs are likely less insanity inducing--just the thought of being here
 *another* 2+ years is kinda depressing.
 20 visits really doesn't seem like a lot.  Will they pay for more if the 
 therapist deems it necessary?
#127 Brooke Edmunds(edina) on Wed Apr  3 10:05:27 2002:
 Sometimes it is just such a relief to know that you are actually doing
 something to help yourself that the depression starts to let up.
#128 Reverend Salvador Dali Parton(happyboy) on Wed Apr  3 10:26:43 2002:
 *plays some sad-boo music*
#129 John Ellis Perry Jr.(jep) on Wed Apr  3 11:25:31 2002:
 The MCARE plan I have will not pay for more than 20 mental health 
 sessions in a year.  But that's not too awful; if you consider that 
 they're paying for $45 of each visit (out of $60) and will cover 10 or 
 20 visits, that's $450 or $900 I don't have to pay.  Plus they'll pay 
 for all but $15 of my Zoloft prescription, which costs another $60+ 
 according to CVS, and which I'll be renewing about every 30 days for a 
 long time.
 
 Sure, it'd be nice if they'd pay for all the therapy I want, and it'll 
 be costing me $240 or $300 per month if I keep going every week, but 
 it's something that they pay for as much as they do.
 
 My depression is because I'm going through divorce.  (See item #11 if 
 you want to know more about that.)  I don't think it has much 
 connection with anyone else's depression.
 
 Hopefully we'll all get through what we're going through.  That's what 
 this item is here for.
#130 Twila Oxley Price(anderyn) on Wed Apr  3 12:02:40 2002:
 Rhiannon is coming home today (about three pm). I won't be there with a nice
 cozy meal and a newly cleaned and polished room for her and Griffin. That kind
 of makes me feel like I'm not doing the grandma thing, but I've been working
 on telling myself that I need to stand back and let her be responsible since
 it's her baby and her life, and that I can only do that by continuing my life
 with as much continuity as possible in my routines -- I go out Thursdays with
 my friends, and I won't stop that, for example. I can be there in emergencies
 and with advice (if I am asked -- I'm going to try to emulate my beloved
 mother in law and NOT just offer it unwanted) but I am not going to take over,
 even when I think she's being a total idiot about what she's doing. (Well,
 okay, if I think it's dangerous, I'd probably step in, but that's the only
 time.)
 
 I'm feeling very ambivalent about being the live-in grandmother. I have a
 really strong sense of territoriality, and having Griffin there means that
 Bradley can just waltz in and out a lot more than he'd been doing as
 Rhiannon's boyfriend (she usually asked before having him over), and that's
 upsetting.  Knowing that we'll have lots of visitors is also upsetting. I know
 it's minor, but it's still something that bugs me a lot. I like my privacy.
#131 Insert name here(bhelliom) on Wed Apr  3 13:10:07 2002:
 RE #115 and #117
 
 I actually was starting therapy when I was at Harvard, but it was in 
 the final year of my graduate program, and since I was planning on 
 taking aq break after that and returning to michigan, I didn't want to 
 establish a tight patient Dr. relationship and the head thirteen hours 
 away.
 
 The problem with MCare is the limited number of options to choose 
 from.  That, and it seems that every time I mention to them that I 
 would like to limit the search to psychologists only, they decide they 
 want to throw in a social worker or two.  I haev nothing against SWs, I 
 just don't want to speak to one. You'd think they'd keep tabs on the 
 practitioners they for you to choose from, but they don't bother.  If 
 they did, they would have known that every single woman on their list 
 had no room for new patients, and that a couple of them only kept a 
 limit number of slots open for MCare patients.  I really don't think 
 it's my job to catalogue this information.  
 
 The only other option is to go the clinic route, and I've decided that 
 I don't want to.  I personally don't want to talk to people just to 
 find someone to talk to, if that makes sense.  What I want to speak to 
 a therapist about is none of their business, since they won't be the 
 ones providing therapy. This all may sound rather picky, but the point 
 is to know ahead of time what you will and won't accept, what you're 
 most comfortable with, and what you can compromise on.  And, if you're 
 willing and able to pay for it yourself, then, by all means, go for it. 
 
 I don't know if my plan is different than yours, jep, but I was told I 
 had 20 visits through MCare.  Of course, people have been known to 
 screw up information before.
 
 Anderyn- Yes, it's cool to allow access to the baby, but you are 
 perfectly within your rights to request that this is done with reason.  
 Griffin's father can't use his paternity as carte blanche to come over 
 whenever he feels like it.   Bradley can't just "waltz in," because 
 that is still your home, he above all has to respect you, your family, 
 and your wishes.  You're helping out your daughter and grandchild, not 
 Bradley.
#132 Brooke Edmunds(edina) on Wed Apr  3 14:07:03 2002:
 Actually Twila, I was thinking kudos to you!  So many people don't realize
 their own boundaries and not only have you done so, but you are trying to
 honor and enforce them.
#133 John Ellis Perry Jr.(jep) on Wed Apr  3 14:51:19 2002:
 re #131: Why do you want a psychologist instead of a social worker?
 
 I agree with #131's comments to Twila.  You don't owe the guy to be 
 able to pop in whenever he wants to.  It might help him in bonding with 
 his child if you're flexible, but you're doing him a favor and he has 
 to recognize that.  I hope he's getting his life arranged so he can 
 take care of his child and the child's mother.  Also, I agree with #132 
 and couldn't say it any better than Brooke did.
#134 Eskarina Smith(eskarina) on Wed Apr  3 15:04:14 2002:
 Maybe there is a difference between the way psychologists and social workers
 do their thing.
 
 One of the things that annoyed me about my therapist was that she kept telling
 me what to do, and making what I felt were judgemental statements about what
 I was doing.
 
 I was also, at the time, taking a social work class (an intro to social work
 class that can count for a social science credit if you are lucky enough to
 be in the honors college), and our professor talked a lot about how you
 shouldn't give people advice, but try to nurture them along in their thought
 process so that _they_ come up with their _own_ solution that works best for
 them, their situation, and their values.  And that's what I wanted.
#135 Carolyn Woodroofe(lynne) on Wed Apr  3 15:35:26 2002:
 <wonders if someone should start a new item to discuss depression and 
 therapists, then decides it really isn't that out of line in the bummed item>
 This first session was an exploratory one, I suppose.  Mostly I talked a lot
 about trends I don't like in myself and where they might have come from.  It
 was mildly amusing to see that when i mentioned a trend, the therapist would
 ask for specific examples, and when I gave specific examples somewhere else
 he'd try to sum them up into a trend.  None of his comments were really
 earthshattering, since they'd occurred to me long ago, but I've had 25 years
 to analyze my past and a lot more familiarity with the topic.  I feel I
 already have a fairly good grasp of what's wrong, but don't know how to even
 start to change things.  I'm curious to see if he has any useful advice
 along those lines.
 This one is a social worker, if anyone cares.  I don't know how different a
 psychologist would be; I did talk to a psychiatrist on Monday who mostly sort
 of annoyed me.
#136 Twila Oxley Price(anderyn) on Wed Apr  3 16:00:00 2002:
 My therapist is a psychologist, I think -- she mostly makes me talk and then
 offers some ideas on things I might try to change that behavior that we're
 focussing on -- I respond and we discuss it, trying to see if there's
 something that will work given the constraints I have and where I'm at. I like
 this method. She said she was mostly a behaviour modification oriented person
 when I started going to her.
#137 Julie, the Captain's Wife(morwen) on Wed Apr  3 16:26:53 2002:
 IBB I'm nesting and I REALLY want to get my house clean for the baby, 
 but whenever I decide, "Okay, today I will clean house," something 
 always happens to deter me.  :(
#138 John Ellis Perry Jr.(jep) on Wed Apr  3 16:55:21 2002:
 I'd think a discussion about how to get psychiatric help would belong 
 in the bummed item, but if anyone objects, I guess we could move it to 
 a new item.
 
 Both of the therapists I've gone to have been social workers.  The 
 first just listened to me and then summarized it at the end of each 
 session.  I asked the second to be more directive than that, and he's 
 doing so.  He sent me to a psychiatrist for medication, which I now 
 think was a good thing.  Also, he has given me some good suggestions 
 such as encouraging me to take the initiative on keeping together the 
 group I was with for the divorce recovery workshop I attended.  I 
 wanted *help*, not just a sympathetic ear.
 
 I'm interested in what one can expect from a psychologist versus a 
 social worker.
#139 Carolyn Woodroofe(lynne) on Wed Apr  3 18:43:00 2002:
 I'd agree completely with wanting more than a sympathetic ear.
 
 It occurred to me a little while ago that I've never said why I'm depressed
 exactly.  This is because I don't know, which tends to feed the problem.  
 It's not situational depression.  I am catching myself doing a lot of things
 that I know will make me unhappy, focusing on depressing things, not 
 interested in things that usually make me happy.  It's been going on for 
 about a month now.  I have ideas about what triggered it, but was at a loss
 for ways to break the cycle.  Exercise and st john's wort were providing
 temporary relief up to last weekend, when suddenly they didn't work anymore.
#140 John Ellis Perry Jr.(jep) on Wed Apr  3 19:15:50 2002:
 Have you ever been depressed before?  I've known people who said they 
 were chronically depressed; they went through it again and again.  My 
 understanding is that medication can really help people like that a lot.
 
 I'm the opposite; mine is situational.  I know just what caused it.  I 
 was never depressed before the divorce came along and ripped my world 
 apart.
#141 Megan Heberlein(eeyore) on Wed Apr  3 23:35:55 2002:
 My grandmother has been fighting depression on and off for about 50 years
 now.  From what my mother told me this evening, usually sudden onsets of
 depression are easier to deal with than the the gradual ones.  If they
 appears suddenly, they are alot more likely to dissappear suddenly, and
 quicker as well.
 
 Depression also hits different people in different ways.  There's the
 traditional mopey depression, but you can also be argumentative, have sleep
 issues (too much or too little), or just a massive personality change.
 
 (Obviously I didn't learn all too much....1/2 hour on the phone can only get
 so much information, but it was a really interesting conversation :)
 
 Depression also runs with strong family history.  In my family, my
 grandmother (obvioulsy), my aunt is currently being treated, my uncle has on
 and off (although I think that was mostly during times when he was trying to
 quit heavy drugs), and while I wasn't treated, I did have a bit of a bout a
 few years ago.  (I didn't realize what it was at the time, until my mother
 and I had some converstaions a couple of years later...but DAMN was I
 difficult to get along with!!!!)  I suspect that my mother has had a couple
 of bouts too, but not as severe as my grandmother.
#142 Chili con Valley(clees) on Thu Apr  4 01:17:19 2002:
 My sister in law suffers from depression. She has done since the age of 
 I think seventeen or so, when she was placed into custody in our family 
 (long story, my eldest bro was already dating her, but she was 
 suffering from child abuse - incest). She never got over it, with 
 additional suicide attempts, institutionalisations etc. Now, twenty 
 something years later she improves every now and then, but has severe 
 lapses.
 
 As for me, I went to see a psychologist in 1997, have done that for six 
 months in order to change some behavioral patterns. (very severe psycho-
 somatic complaints). It helped me quite a lot and helped me tackle some 
 of the skeletons in my closet. Not all, the therapy was based on 
 changing behavioral patterns so some traumas are still there, but they 
 don't bother me anymore, and I have found a lot more mental peace then 
 befoe taking therapy. It gave me the courage to go to the US twice and 
 visit online friends.
#143 designed by a  nincompoop(oval) on Thu Apr  4 02:59:59 2002:
 and depression can also coincide with contact with certain people who make
 you fell like shit.
#144 Julie, the Captain's Wife(morwen) on Thu Apr  4 04:25:40 2002:
 Or situations that you feel powerless to control or avoid.

This response has been erased.

can someone without nuts have number nuts than someone who would call someone
without nuts numbnuts?

shadap, numbnuts

nuts to you!

This response has been erased.

         a rather serious item.

Amen

So Jamie has his depression item and keesan has hers.

Take your pick of one or both. =P

This response has been erased.

It's been there longer.

There are people responding to a jp2 item?  You mean there are
still people who don't forget them on sight?

You mean, like people who forget what you say on sight?

I forget them not 'on sight' but without having to read them at all.

This response has been erased.

#15 hera (juno) Mon, Apr  8, 2002 (18:02):
 chamberl, why would she tell you that you don't like yourself? She sounds
like
 an idiot. She is probably the one who doesn't really like HERself. You have
 always sounded as if you like yourself just fine, and most people around here
 seem to like you too. 

#16 Abridged too far (chamberl) Mon, Apr  8, 2002 (18:03):   <response to #15>
 YOu've got that exactly right.
 She doesn't like herself.
 I have no interestd in finding her.
 Nor do I know how.

#17 hera (juno) Mon, Apr  8, 2002 (18:20):
 I woke up this morning and looked in the mirror and I was just stunned with
 my own beauty. Has that ever happened to you, chamberl, where you looked in
 the mirror and thought, "Damn! You look good!"

#18 Abridged too far (chamberl) Mon, Apr  8, 2002 (18:29):
 no

#19 hera (juno) Mon, Apr  8, 2002 (18:38):
 Then you most certainly do not totally hate yourself. People who get to
hating
 themselves start feeling like they are pretty ugly, then they are surprised
 when they look in the mirror and see that they actually look pretty damn good
 compared to the ugly thoughts they had of themselves in their head.

#20 Karate Chopin (casper) Wed, Apr 10, 2002 (07:31):
 I can't tell if you are devious enough to have planned that pair of
responses,
or
 if you really just went from loving yourself at 18:20 to hating yourself at
 18:38.

Ok - you konw it's a slow day when we're cutting and pasting m-net into grex.

Amen

        you know you loved it ;)

does chamberl have a job yet?

Nope. 

figures.

i think he'd make an EXCELLENT hostage negotiator.

well *i'm* not gonna take you hostage!

*blank*

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