No Next Item No Next Conference Can't Favor Can't Forget Item List Conference Home Entrance    Help
View Responses


Grex Agora41 Item 165: Off with its head!
Entered by keesan on Thu May 9 19:33:46 UTC 2002:

The English language has the odd habit of shortening adjective-noun phrases
by omitting the noun.  Vacuum (cleaner).  Microwave (oven).  Summit (meeting).
For the benefit of our visitors from other languages, or just for fun, please
list more of these shortened phrases.

26 responses total.



#1 of 26 by flem on Thu May 9 19:37:53 2002:

iwbg iwbg


#2 of 26 by rcurl on Thu May 9 19:56:12 2002:

(people like you are why I left academia)


#3 of 26 by gull on Thu May 9 20:03:23 2002:

Sometimes it goes the other way.  (Phonograph) record.


#4 of 26 by brighn on Thu May 9 20:25:38 2002:

Those aren't adjective-noun phrases, they're noun-noun phrases (as is gull's
example).
 
I'm more interested by the phenomenon that there are only a few natural
two-syllable words ending in -o (lotto, bingo), but a huge number of clipped
words ending in -o (photo, porno, psycho, sado, pseudo, zoo), as well as a
few slang words (wacko, weirdo, dumbo). 
*shrug* Or maybe not. =}


#5 of 26 by jp2 on Thu May 9 23:27:14 2002:

This response has been erased.



#6 of 26 by oval on Fri May 10 00:08:48 2002:

stupid (fucker)




#7 of 26 by jazz on Fri May 10 00:11:59 2002:

        Oral (roberts)


#8 of 26 by brighn on Fri May 10 03:03:25 2002:

mother(fucker), too


#9 of 26 by keesan on Fri May 10 03:09:23 2002:

retro (retroactive, retrospective?)  art deco(ratif?)  auto(mobile)
The phrases made from two nouns are using the first one as an adjective.
Television (receiver).  Radio (apparatus).  


#10 of 26 by other on Fri May 10 04:05:34 2002:

It's a specifier, not a descriptive.


#11 of 26 by senna on Fri May 10 04:20:03 2002:

Lotto is used as a shortform for lottery, is it not?



#12 of 26 by brighn on Fri May 10 04:34:18 2002:

#11> 'spossible
 
#9> I disagree, they're noun + noun phrases. ;}


#13 of 26 by oval on Fri May 10 08:53:07 2002:

bull (shit)



#14 of 26 by keesan on Fri May 10 12:17:58 2002:

grocery (store), laundry (? a place that washes it), final (exam) - definitely
an adjective, application (program) - any other truncated computer phrases?,
laptop (computer), desktop (?)


#15 of 26 by happyboy on Fri May 10 13:59:21 2002:

het (erosexual)


#16 of 26 by brighn on Fri May 10 14:51:30 2002:

But, following my pattern: hetero and homo.


#17 of 26 by jazz on Fri May 10 16:07:17 2002:

        Shortened words are different than dropped nouns, right?


#18 of 26 by brighn on Fri May 10 17:18:25 2002:

Depends on your morphological theory... =>
If you classify things as morphological units based on their semantic
completeness, then no, a clipping and a dropped noun are roughly the same
thing, linguistically. Multiword phrases would qualify as single morphological
units.
If you classify things as morphological units based on their semantic
completeness AND their word count (i.e., all morphological units must be
smaller than or the same size as a word), then yes, they're different.
 
Most laymen tend to think in the latter terms, but the former is more
linguistically sound, IMHO.


#19 of 26 by jazz on Fri May 10 17:28:38 2002:

        Jeez, who peed in your coffee this morning?

        I do believe there's a difference in that the dropped portion of a
clipping doesn't necessarily have the same role as the dropped portion of 
a dropped noun phrase.


#20 of 26 by rcurl on Fri May 10 18:26:08 2002:

Noun phrases can be much more complex than used here. See
http://papyr.com/hypertextbooks/engl_126/ph_noun.htm

The type of noun phrase offered in #0 are those in which the head has
been dropped in favor of just the premodifier, and yet retaining the
same meaning. A lot of examples given later do not have this property.

In fact, there are many noun phrases in which dropping the head changes
the meaning entirely. For example, "paper tiger" cannot be shortened to
just "paper" and retain the same meaning. Other examples are phone book,
apple pie, and stone age. In all of these the modifier restricts the head
but still requires the head. In laundry room it does not, the modifier
alone coming into use for the phrase. 

It wasn't initially clear to me what the difference is between those in
which the head can be dropped and those in which it cannot.  I have now
concluded it is often because the examples in #0 are *redundancies*.  That
is, laundry originally meant the place where laundry was done, so laundry
room is redundant. Grocery store is the same: grocery came first and store
is redundant. "Radio" is an invented word and it is redundant to add
"apparatus". 

Final exam doesn't follow this, but here it is a case of clipping a phrase
that had a single meaning in a special environment - a school.  To a radio
engineer, however, a final is the last stage in an amplifier. The term
"final stage" is clipped to just "final".

In other noun phrases, the premodifier was introduced later to restrict
the head, as in apple pie. In this and other similar examples there is no
redundancy. 



#21 of 26 by brighn on Fri May 10 23:27:32 2002:

John> What Rane said. ;} The point is, with clipping, the meaning isn't
obvious from the remnant, and is the result of conventional usage.
"Automobile" and "final exam" can both be clipped (to auto and final,
respectively), and both require some degree of context to be sure of the
meaning ("auto" *usually* means car, but "putting something on auto" would
mean "automatic," for instance).
 
And nobody peed in my coffee. I don't drink coffee. I hadn't meant to sound
harsh or annoyed, I certainly wasn't feeling that way.


#22 of 26 by jazz on Sat May 11 00:12:11 2002:

        I understand your point, but do you mine?

        If there weren't a difference, would it be possible to reasonably
discuss whether or not the difference were significant?


#23 of 26 by brighn on Sat May 11 00:42:04 2002:

I'll accept that there's a difference, I'm jus tnot sure how important it is.


#24 of 26 by keesan on Sat May 11 02:51:26 2002:

(tele)phone but not (tele)vision or (tele)type.


#25 of 26 by cmcgee on Sat May 11 12:53:24 2002:

Where does final exam[ination] fit in this scheme?


#26 of 26 by keesan on Sat May 11 12:57:44 2002:

Off with its tail?  Like retro.

Response not possible - You must register and login before posting.

No Next Item No Next Conference Can't Favor Can't Forget Item List Conference Home Entrance    Help

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss