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http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-cop21.html "Chicago police are reviewing the fatal shooting of officer Donald Marquez to see whether officers should change the way they serve subpoenas and make arrests in civil cases for City Hall. Marquez was killed Monday night after breaking down a door with a sledgehammer to arrest a reclusive 77-year-old man in a housing case." ---- Here's where it gets interesting. Its a 47-year old hispanic in 'plain cloths' aka street clothes - not in uniform - breaking down the front door of a 77-year old guy in a moderately high crime area with a sledge. The geriatric actually owns two .22 pistols, which is not the unusual part. The unusual part is that they are licensed by the city which has had strict anti-gun laws for 35 years or so. So a non-hispanic (dunno white or black) who, licensed to own (and probably carry as thats the way it usually works) two pistols, has his front door busted in at 10 o'clock at night by an hispanic in a moderate crime area... Now, I am not one to normaly criticize the CPD. Indeed, I like the CPD, UCPD, CTAPD, HAPD, PDPD and the other police officers who operate where I live (we are well policed). I think -in particular the CPD who have a 'crash pad' nextdoor to me - chicagoland cops are friendly and practical and see themselves as citizens of the community and I am sad to hear one of their members died - over building code violations. BUT, I think there is something wrong here...
23 responses total.
Obviously the old white guy was engaging in "racial profiling", else he never would have shot at the police officer. But hey, what else do you expect of a member of the oppressor class who has the gall to own guns and all that. (One also wonders what kind of department hires people stupid enough to break down people's doors with sledgehammers at 10 PM, in plainclothes, and gives them badges and guns [I thought that was limited to Detroit]. Probably the sort of department who would take my first paragraph seriously instead of as extreme sarcasm.)
was this a darwin event or a 2nd ammendment moment/ i'm not at all thrilled that an officer dies, but as beedy says, "I think there is something wrong here..."
I am not thrilled at all that a line trooper dies over what is little more serious than failing to answer a traffic ticket. And at the same time I am really really bothered by the notion of police with sledge hammer breaking down the front door of anyone's house in the middle of the night over such. Its a shitty situation all the way around even if you don't know all the local details (as I do).
What's the big deal? Guy successfully defends home using legally-owned handgun. I don't see why beady or russ should be anything but happy.
In their world, defending you home does not include dying yourself. Guns make you invincible against criminals.
Seems to me the cop made a bad mistake.
Re #5: You wanna provide a quote to that effect, or are you just being a jerk? In the real world, gang bangers don't shoot nearly as well as cops (who in turn don't shoot as well as gun enthusiasts; cops get their asses whipped in shooting competitions). Shooting at a gang-banger is probably a smart move (the banger will likely run even if they aren't hit). The cops will likely shoot back. Unless undercover, cops should never, EVER be mistakable for crooks, especially by their actions. That was definitely a Darwin-level fsckup, as bad as the plainclothes MPs who tried to disarm a sheriff's deputy who was not a participant in their little exercise. What's really ironic here is that the *cop* was such a lousy shot that the 77-year-old guy, who probably hadn't been to a range in years, was able to inflict fatal wounds with a lousy .22 pistol before being incapacitated by return fire from a much more powerful weapon. Conclusion: The cops need better training, both in shooting and in dwelling entries (and especially when not to do either). (This isn't my own brilliant deduction, this is what people have been saying for years... and what's really sad is that the situation has apparently not improved much.)
hah it is SO true that gangbangers can't shoot for shit. it's amazing any of them actually kill each other despite the high number of attempts an each other. i think most of the deaths are point blank situations. i just thought i'd take a moment to make fun of them since they live in my 'hood' and act like idiots. one day i came home at midnight, went into my apt, and heard a shower of gunshots outside. i looked out my window (since i hadn't yet turned on my lights) and saw 2 guys running past my place down the street. i called 911 and reported the number of shots and location. couple of days later i saw an article in the paper about how L'il Kim's 'boys' had shot some guys over an argument they were having in the bodega. they emptied their guns on this guys and only hit him once in the leg. he ended up walking the 15 min walk to the hospital. when cops visit someone (especially if there's door-breaking going on) don;t they travel in pairs??? [if you look up that article - i don't live there anymore.]
Well, the world has created a situation where the police no longer have any grounds for complaint if they get shot in any forced-entry situation. Thugs posing as cops have taken to dressing in police-style drug-raid gear, right down to badges and POLICE stencils on ths clothing, have been breaking in to various residences in some of the larger cities, and cleaning the place out, sometimes killing people as they go. (To this degree, this is not distinguishable from a real drug raid.) The first obvious sign that this is not a real raid is when they leave, real raids have the surviving occupants packed off to jail some time prior to the police leaving. Needless to say, as word gets around, police gear will not have what little psychological protective effect it once had. People will shoot first, figuring they have nothing to lose regardless of who they end up shooting.
WE had a gangland shooting in Detroit tonight, somebody sprayed the home with an AK-47 and killed a 3 year old girl. Gangbangers tend to hit bystandersmore than their targets. We also had a cop robbed of his service weapon and badge last night in detroit. Wonder what they wanted with those?
Of course gangbangers can't shoot straight. Ever tried to control
muzzle rise when you're making that oh-so-hardcore Ice-T fist and holding the
pistol sideways?
Bru, of course, barely lives within 50 miles of Detroit so I am not sure who he means when he says "we" Anyways, the issue here clearly is not gun ownership or defending one's home with a gun or even race. The issue is police procedure. It is bad procedure to go banging down someone's door at 10p in plain clothes unless one has a VERY good reason to do so. It is a shame that this police officer got shot but think about how it would look for the department if it was the 77 year old who ended up dead?
(re#12: Uh, the item title was 'Dead Cop, dead old man -over violations of building code.' What part of 'dead old man' was difficult?
Ooops. I missed that. Ok but the PD can still blame the dead cop can not look quite as bad.
lol@#11
beadyh, can you fet a url for that story. i did a quickie search that turned up nothing.
Uh, you might try: http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-cop21.html
The short version is that the cop was f*cking moron and deserved what he got.
thankxxx fer de url ... amazing, simply amazing in a VeryNegativeWay (tm). City Corporation Counsel Mara Georges said the officers decided to visit Wolk's home at 10 p.m. because they did not want him to spend the entire day Monday in jail waiting for his Tuesday hearing. "I don't know that any mistakes were made," Georges said. "I know the Police Department is reviewing the entire situation and has not determined whether any changes in procedure are necessary." (Don's brother, Dan, said,) "I can't even begin to speculate whether the procedures were right or wrong," he said. "Don used to say that serving a summons was like delivering a pizza. That was his approach to the job. " and the city lawyer can't even say 'mistakes were made?' <damn!>
The rest of the story is that the arrest warrant was months old. The dead cop apparently was well known to the dead old fart. Apparently some 'community activist' had actually tried to buy the building where the dead old guy lived and offered the DOG rent free living for the rest of the DOG's life on account the DOG din't seem to have living family. The dead cop did seem to indeed go out of his way to 'work' the situation - he didn't try to bust the door down months ago. When you know the details it is even more a sad story and you just gotta suspect a white-shirt somplace had a senior moment and the dead cop was acting against his own better judgement (was a street smart cop of long tenure).
or perhaps a brand spankable new white shirt got tough on his first day on the job ... which would make it even stupider.
Re: 8, 11: http://www.birdman.org/images/hnsbig.jpg
re#22: Now *that* was funny. I'm sure it will show up in the anti-gun literature as a serious example of the problem... it also assumes a level of familiarity with marksmanship that is demonstrably not present in the purported target market for the product.
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