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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 186 responses total. |
aruba
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response 95 of 186:
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Dec 3 19:57 UTC 2003 |
Sending mail to users telling them about how Grex is supported, and how
they can become members, has been discussed on and off for a number of
years. A couple of years ago Valerie worked out a way to do it with
minimal impact on the system, and wrote a program. danr wrote the
message. We were all set to start sending the messages, when the quantity
of Spam sent to Grex users suddenly exploded, and valerie and I got cold
feet about the whole project. We realized how much we hated Spam, and
were unsettled at the idea of becoming Spammers ourselves.
I am on the fence about it, but I guess I do think it's a legitimate thing
to do - after all, lots of nonprofits send newsletters and things to remind
people to donate. They even call up on the phone, which is way more
obnoxious than an email.
At least one question needs to be answered before we implement it - what
return address should be on the message, and who should respond to the angry
replies? The answer could be "no one", but that seems like a copout to me
- I think if you send Spam, you should deal with the consequences, or you're
being irresponsible. Valerie did implement an "opt-out" in her program; I'm
not sure how it would work. (I.e., would the user have to go to a web page,
or reply with a keyword in the subject line, or what.) But undoubtedly
there wuld be some angry replies as well.
We're talking about a large volume of email, and we tentatively suggested
sending a message every three months to people who aren't members. I
forget the numbers, but say there are 30,000 users who aren't members;
that's over 300 messages on the average day. No doubt some portion of the
replies will be nasty, and it could become a lot of work to deal with
them. (I don't *know* it'd be a lot of work - we'd have to try it to find
out.)
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jp2test
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response 96 of 186:
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Dec 3 20:00 UTC 2003 |
I hate to put it so bluntly, but I've demonstrated that the angry replies just
don't happen. As I have said before and will keep saying, there are a lot
of messages in my inbox from users who are atleast somewhat interested in
becoming members and they are not getting responses right now.
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aruba
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response 97 of 186:
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Dec 3 20:41 UTC 2003 |
How about a detailed accounting of all the replies you received? I don't
approve of your methods, but if you have data, quit talking in generalities,
and post the results.
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jp2test
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response 98 of 186:
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Dec 3 20:42 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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jp2test
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response 99 of 186:
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Dec 3 20:44 UTC 2003 |
I would love to post hard numbers, but the data is in jp2's inbox.
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aruba
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response 100 of 186:
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Dec 3 20:45 UTC 2003 |
Well, you haven't "demonstrated" anything until you do.
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jp2test
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response 101 of 186:
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Dec 3 20:54 UTC 2003 |
Well, I have eleven responses I that were forwarded to an offsite account:
Just here for free email: 3
Asked how/why/benefits: 5
Too poor: 1 (explained how grex membership is
a months salary in Hungary)
Random 1 (doesn't want to make Grexers feel
more "smug" than they already do)
From what I saw on Grex prior to forwarding, there was one who simply could
not afford it. Two-three who like the idea, but not at $80/year, and another
dozen or so who didn't know you could become a member and asked what was
involved, etc. That is, obviously, working from memory.
Not great data, but it's still more than anyone else has produced.
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aruba
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response 102 of 186:
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Dec 3 21:04 UTC 2003 |
(Dues are $60/year.)
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gull
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response 103 of 186:
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Dec 3 21:22 UTC 2003 |
Re resp:100: Right now, staff is preventing him from getting at the data,
so I think it's a bit disingenuous to blame him for not being able to produce
answers right now.
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other
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response 104 of 186:
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Dec 3 21:24 UTC 2003 |
Making Grex dues affordable to people whose cost of living is hugely
less than the average American cannot be a goal for us. We have to
set a donation level which both allows us to meet out expenses and
keeps the work involved in managing the system down to a manageable
level for a committed volunteer. (In case you didn't catch it, that
last bit means lower price/greater volume for international
memberships is not a reasonable tradeoff for our system.)
re #103: Technically correct, but it was his own idiocy that
created that reality.
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mynxcat
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response 105 of 186:
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Dec 3 21:38 UTC 2003 |
I'm curious as to who that "Random" one was from.
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jp2test
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response 106 of 186:
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Dec 3 21:41 UTC 2003 |
102: Yes, that's a typo in post 101.
104: Yes, but making it more affordable to average Americans can be a goal.
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mynxcat
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response 107 of 186:
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Dec 3 21:44 UTC 2003 |
Resp 101: I'm curious as to who that "Random" one was from.
Resp 104: And other is being a little too defensive. No one mentioned
reducing dues for international users.
And even if it was Jamie's "idiocy" that created that reality, the
point is people now want to see the data he has collected through
this "idiocy" to come up with a more viable plan. gull's point in resp
103 is therefore valid.
Are you ever going to get over that chip on your shoulder?
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other
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response 108 of 186:
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Dec 3 22:04 UTC 2003 |
I don't have a chip. I merely have a low level of tolerance for
people who make it a point to be as assinine and annoying as
possible. Jamie came to Grex that way, and shows no significant
sign of abating, despite superficial appearances to the contrary.
I'm beginning to wonder if naftee/dah/polytarp/willcome aren't all
his aliases merely to allow himself the freedom to vent while he
tries to attach an image of legitimacy to jp2.
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willcome
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response 109 of 186:
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Dec 3 22:10 UTC 2003 |
You really should see a doctor about that chip, other.
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aruba
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response 110 of 186:
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Dec 3 22:25 UTC 2003 |
Re #103: A fair point, that he can't enter the data now. I'm assuming he
will as soon as he gets the chance. It's also disingenuous to say you've
"demonstrated" something via a survey which wasn't scientific and whose
results haven't been posted yet, don't you think?
I apologize if it sounds like I'm picking nits or being obstructionist. I
don't mean to be. I'm more than a little puzzled by how Jamie could have
gotten a math degree when he uses the words "prove" and "demonstrate" with
virtually nothing to back them up. One of the things mathematics should
teach you is that those words have very precise meanings.
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jp2test
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response 111 of 186:
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Dec 3 22:38 UTC 2003 |
And if we were talking about math, I'd use those words very differently :)
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aruba
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response 112 of 186:
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Dec 3 22:41 UTC 2003 |
Well, we're talking about reality. At least, most of us are.
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jp2test
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response 113 of 186:
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Dec 3 23:29 UTC 2003 |
I like my place somewhere in between. In between what I have no idea.
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mynxcat
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response 114 of 186:
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Dec 3 23:59 UTC 2003 |
Re 108> It's more like you have no tolerance for anyone who disagrees or
brings up arguments. Sure Jamie has argued about a lot of things, some of them
a waste of time. But he's never vandalised bbs, and I use that term lightly
(vandalism is willcome's "spam" all over agora in my book). All he's done is
argue and been not-so-deferential to the grexers.
This whole election campaign has proved one thing. You guys are never going
to get over the fact that someone dared to question policy. A lot of the posts
in this campaign and the other related items smack of personal dislike rather
than actual flaws. You might think that you guys are winning, but really you
are jsut running around in circles agreeing with each other, rather than
looking at facts. Whatever, I guess the majority wins here.
And Jamie, I'm not sure whether you are taking this election seriously. I
personally believe that you could be a great addition, especially when it
comes to making grex more visible (whatever visibility it can get in this day
and age) and possibly getting more members and contributions. you may be able
to bring about some necessary change in the way Grex is governed also. But
one thing you haven't learnt is that more elections are won through diplomacy
and tact rather than on legalities (or stuffing the ballot-box) And you don't
have that. If you plan to get on teh board of any organizatrion you bet you
need to get the people to like you, and maybe even respect you. And you've
done neither here. Maybe just for that you do deserve to lose. Which is a
shame, because I would like to see you on board.
And don't even get me started on the hypocricy. A few weeks ago a staffer was
rapped on the knuckles for locking out an account of a person who was causing
actual trouble deliberately, with no good intentions. Apparently he was too
"harsh" in punishment. Yet, at this point you people won't bat an eye when
Jamie's account gets locked out, never mind that it wasn't an act of
maliciousness.
I've had my say. You may go back to living in your little grex world and Jamie
in his world where he wins an election on a technicality.
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willcome
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response 115 of 186:
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Dec 4 00:21 UTC 2003 |
I'd like to point out that I noted jp2 had no respect for the system weeks
before he actually did anything wrong.
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aruba
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response 116 of 186:
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Dec 4 00:30 UTC 2003 |
Re #114: Sapna: who do you mean when you say "you guys"?
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willcome
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response 117 of 186:
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Dec 4 00:38 UTC 2003 |
She means Old Grex.
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aruba
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response 118 of 186:
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Dec 4 00:39 UTC 2003 |
I think she can speak for herself.
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willcome
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response 119 of 186:
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Dec 4 00:43 UTC 2003 |
Sure, she quite articulately did. You didn't bother to understand what she
wrote. I helped.
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