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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 170 responses total. |
cross
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response 94 of 170:
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Jan 8 23:16 UTC 2004 |
Regarding #92; Bite your tongue. One word: Twinkie.
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jep
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response 95 of 170:
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Jan 9 00:31 UTC 2004 |
Sigh. All right, I read the parody item. As far as I can tell,
mynxcat never entered anything into it, other than expressing her
amusement.
I have to admit, I found parts of it really, really funny. I read
Valerie's item for the last couple of years, during the time that
parody was being made, and clearly recognized almost all of the
references.
I didn't find very much of it to be really mean-spirited. It was not
kind or sensitive toward Valerie's feelings, but I think that's a
different thing. I didn't perceive any intent to hurt Valerie, or to
hurt anyone.
Here's a typical example:
=====================================================
#101 of 369 by mallory vates [popcorn] (cyklone) on Sat Feb 22 22:56:32
2003:
Arlo is really making me angry. He's developed this bad habit of
swinging from the ceiling fan when I am trying to work out to my "Feng
Shui Aerobics for Recent Mothers" video. I am open to any suggestions
how to stop this. I've thought about just dragging him down by his
legs, but he might accidently kick me and I don't want him growing up
to know he hurt his mother. I also thought about putting a mattress on
the floor beneath him and then turning the fan to its highest spin
setting in hopes he'll get tired and just let go. I could also have Jan
remove the fan but I love the way it blows Kendra's hair when I am
breastfeeding her.
=====================================================
I find that funny. I don't think there was any intent to hurt anyone.
Obviously Valerie never described Arlo hanging from the ceiling fan.
Obviously no one is saying she would allow such a thing, or react
indecisively if it happened. The author extrapolated from something
Valerie said, and made it into a very funny comment.
The item Valerie entered was not intended as humor, but dozens to
hundreds of people read it. It's hardly surprising that some of the
things she said in all seriousness were perceived humorously by other
readers. I'm not going to cite examples, but at times, I was amused by
things Valerie said, in ways she would find entirely inappropriate.
While I was married, I had similar reactions to things said by my
wife. I had to learn to repress them then, and I applied the same
skill to Valerie's item.
Had I known of the item on M-Net's agora, I might well have
participated. I wouldn't have had any bad intent toward Valerie. I
had, and still have, a lot of respect and admiration for Valerie. Some
of my potential comments could have been perceived as mean, but
certainly, I wouldn't have intended them that way. I guess I lucked
out that I never participated. Dangit, sometimes the things other
people do are funny, and sometimes one can perceive humor about another
person, without meaning any harm or having any bad intent. Even if the
other person wouldn't like it.
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mynxcat
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response 96 of 170:
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Jan 9 02:16 UTC 2004 |
Scott, why do you think I should go ahead and inform Valerie about the item?
I've never interacted with her before a few months ago when I joined the baby
diary, and my comments have been few. People who were responding in the item
were people who had been on grex for years. People who posted were people who
interacted actively in the baby diary and on grex. People that you deemed
good enough to be on your board. People who were definitely closer to Valerie
than I was. When you see people like these post there, it's not difficult to
see why one would think that the conferene was well-known. As jep pointed out,
I assumed she knew about it and ignored it. And even if I'd thought she didn't
know about it, I, a stranger, was hardly going to drop the bomb on her. If she
had to find out so late in the game, I guess the right person told her. (It's
hard to imagine how an item could run for 2.5 years, and the "victim" would
have no clue that something like that existed, especially given that the ttwo
systems have so many common users).)
Jep, I did post in that item. My responses were posted after Valerie froze
her items here on grex. I found her behaviour childish, that she couldn't get
past discussion that disagreed with her views, and she felt the need to deny
people to have an open discussion. I will admit that I lost some respect for
her at that point, and that's when I posted. (These were prolly the most
malicious posts I've made. If I made others in that particular item, it was
basically because I found something amusing, and those were not meant to hurt.
)
I've also parodied the item from 2002 (summer or fall agora, I don't remember),
where we were discussing the need for a non-local board member. That was
largely a parody on the whole situation and was not meant to target specific
individuals.
I've also parodied the
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naftee
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response 97 of 170:
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Jan 9 02:19 UTC 2004 |
It seems janc is making backtalk ruin mynxcat's responses because he found
her parodying his wife!!
#39.182 Mallory Yeats (mynxcat)
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jaklumen
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response 98 of 170:
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Jan 9 02:34 UTC 2004 |
parodied the... yes?
If you go Sapna, I will miss you.
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mynxcat
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response 99 of 170:
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Jan 9 02:56 UTC 2004 |
That's what happens when I try to edit my post using vi. The last line should
be deleted.
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naftee
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response 100 of 170:
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Jan 9 05:15 UTC 2004 |
But you did parody valerie, didn't you.
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keesan
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response 101 of 170:
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Jan 9 05:24 UTC 2004 |
Doesn't google or some other search engine save archived copies of anything
it ever found on the web, in which case items deleted from grex would still
be available if you knew how to access the archives?
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janc
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response 102 of 170:
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Jan 9 05:34 UTC 2004 |
For the record, what Dan Cross says I said on M-Net is not anything I
recall saying there, or believe to be true.
Grex has a robots.txt file that requests that polite robots not index
the conferences. Google is a polite robot. However, all the deleted
items are on Grex's backup tapes.
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keesan
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response 103 of 170:
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Jan 9 15:20 UTC 2004 |
There must be some impolite robots around because once in a while when I do
a search I get a grex item as a hit.
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mynxcat
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response 104 of 170:
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Jan 9 15:30 UTC 2004 |
Re 100> As I said in resp 98 (or thereabouts), yes, I did. Geez you
should go to lawschool or something.
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iggy
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response 105 of 170:
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Jan 9 15:32 UTC 2004 |
I would like to inject a couple of points here.
The mnet agora conference has been mentioned several times on grex. It had
been mentioned in the grex agora conference. Jokes were even made about
certain users making a stampede and pushing each other out of the way
so they could be the first to parody a particular response. This was all
done out in the open. If you chose to remain oblivious and not go check it
out for yourself, then your outrage at such ignorance is baffling.
Also, I'm one of you. Like it or not. I'm not an evil mnet interloper. I've
been a grexer off and on ever since it went online. I remember sitting
at a big information gathering at an ann arbor park. (island?).
My personality more closely meshes in with the "typical" mnetter rather
than the "typical" grexer.. but you cannot deny that I am a longstanding
user.
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bhelliom
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response 106 of 170:
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Jan 9 15:33 UTC 2004 |
This is indicative of what grex has become, regardless of whether there
is an "outside user" or an "insider". Grex is now a collection of
little cliques, and the most damaging war has been this petty tug of war
between the townies and the outsiders. It's become absolutely juvenile.
Outsiders won't listen to insiders because they're considered old
guard, insiders won't listen to outsiders because they're rocking the
boat.
This whole debacle has come about because no one will get off their
asses and actually make a policy decision. Valerie isn't just getting
reamed because of her own actions, Valerie is getting reamed and has
left because Grex has been talking but has done nothing about actually
formulating a policy. When it is on the table, Grex dithers endlessly
until technology changes enough to make it temporarily moot, or until
people forget about it. This whole community should be ashamed of this.
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other
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response 107 of 170:
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Jan 9 16:18 UTC 2004 |
#106 is wrong on several major points, and is not generally a
rational response, but is rather obviously emotionally inspired
hyperbole. Sorry, Syl, but you're off the mark on this.
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mynxcat
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response 108 of 170:
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Jan 9 16:35 UTC 2004 |
I'll explain what other didn't elaborate on.
Syl, this time, believe it or not, it is not a "townie" vs "outsider"
issue. Most people involved were very much "townies". It's more of an
mnet vs grex issue, if you can call it that. There are two sets of
views to what happened, one saying that the parodies are no big deal,
and one saying that they are. (And then you have smaller factions who
say they see both sides, or they think this whole thing is beneath
them... but I digress). I know you've always had an issue with people
bringing up the local vs non-local thing, and we've never agreed on
that, but the discussion at hand had nothing to do with it.
And as for Valerie leaving due to a lack of a policy, there was a
policy in place, albeit unwritten, maybe, which she chose to ignore
because it didn't help her accomplish what she wanted to. While I can
understand what she did, and why she did it, it still doesn't mean it
was right. It was still against grex policy. If you don't agree with
policy, you fight to change it, or you leave. (Of course she had other
reasons to leave too, I'm sure)
As for the whole "grex dithers endlessly", I agree with you, but that
wasn't the issue here.
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bhelliom
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response 109 of 170:
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Jan 9 17:41 UTC 2004 |
No, I realize this is not a townie versus and outside issue. I can
read. That much is obvious. But you cannot deny that the vehemence is a
spill over from this event, and that part of the problem inherent in the
system is cliquishness and the appearance of it. There are already
people here that are pointing those kind of fingers.
FWIW, I include myself in the "out to be ashamed category."
Yes, dithering is the issue. We have had countless debates over policy,
and this is a huge result of that. We are, after another seeming
crisis, debating something that should have been solved a long time ago.
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albaugh
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response 110 of 170:
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Jan 9 17:59 UTC 2004 |
"Dithering over policy" - perhaps. But policy is not likely what most people
want to discuss on a forum like grex. Most policies wouldn't be necessary
except that a few rotten apples do bad things, and then you need something
in place to prevent or address a future recurrence.
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gull
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response 111 of 170:
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Jan 9 18:43 UTC 2004 |
Re resp:109: I think you're off the mark on this. But I can see why
you'd get that impression if you already have a preconcieved notion that
Grex is hostile to outsiders.
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jep
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response 112 of 170:
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Jan 9 19:31 UTC 2004 |
According to comments in Valerie's new on-line baby diary (which she
gave permission to readers to talk about on Grex, btw), she removed her
text from Grex because she didn't want to be parodied on M-Net.
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mynxcat
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response 113 of 170:
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Jan 9 19:46 UTC 2004 |
A little late for that. We were done parodying it when she moved it
off-site.
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keesan
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response 114 of 170:
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Jan 9 19:56 UTC 2004 |
Can't mnetters still parody Valerie's new online baby diary? They just can't
make comments in it.
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mynxcat
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response 115 of 170:
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Jan 9 20:20 UTC 2004 |
That would be against the principles of the parody conference. We
parody what happens on grex. We're not really interested in what they
post outside of grex.
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cross
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response 116 of 170:
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Jan 9 21:57 UTC 2004 |
Regarding #102; I'm sorry, then it's a gross misunderstanding on my part.
btw- for reference, I was drawing from this, which you did write, among
other comments:
> - If you carry that argument to completion, then that gives us a world
> where nobody ever exposes themselves in public. Nobody writes an
> autobiography, or even a novel based on their intimate experiences,
> unless their goal is to set themselves forth as a subject for
> derision. I do not believe that that would be a desirable goal.
> Thus I prefer to approach the culture of attack as a negative force
> that decent people oppose, not as something to declare inevitable
> and resign yourself to.
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naftee
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response 117 of 170:
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Jan 9 23:46 UTC 2004 |
re 106 "rocking the boat" heh. Don't disturb my coffee!
But I agree. It's hard to get the collective GreX force to make a
decision. Everyone keeps talking about what they would have done.
re 111 Yeah , xenophobia!
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aruba
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response 118 of 170:
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Jan 10 00:44 UTC 2004 |
I agree with that quote of Jan's in #116.
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