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21 new of 113 responses total.
jazz
response 93 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 5 17:47 UTC 2003

        That should be market-driven, though.  Trying to push it through ahead
of the market will result in a lot of fat subsidies for a select few robotics
firms that have senators in their pockets, and substantial unemployment.
i
response 94 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 5 22:06 UTC 2003

Re: #90
Russ, are you talking about taxing profits in the real world, or in some
fantasy world of yours, where you write the laws of every country and no
one on the planet can get a inappropriate valuation of a partially-
defaulted derivative security past your all-seeing eye?

Here in the real world, no business with enough savvy to understand the
tax laws needs to show a profit, an a great many do not...*ever*.
mdw
response 95 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 6 01:46 UTC 2003

Indeed the dutch taxed the width of houses.  The british did windows
instead, as well as soap, tea, etc.  You can see how well the tea tax
went over here in the colonies.  Soap taxes had a more subtle effect,
medically in terms of facilitating the spread of disease, and socially
in terms of acting as a class marker.

The IRS actually does frown on businesses that *never* show a profit.
But all that means is it's important to leave a *bit* of tax liability
now and again.  For a public corporation, a much more important reason
to make profits is to attract investors.  For private corporations, on
the other hand, it's open season on taxes.  Both public and private
corporations employ a vast network of lawyers and accounts to find and
exploit tax loopholes, and most also fund lobbyists to rearrange
loopholes.
i
response 96 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 6 03:36 UTC 2003

Re: #95
Remember that companies are de facto legally required to keep seperate
sets of books for reporting results to shareholders/banks/management
and to each different tax authority (seperate Federal/state/local even
if they're nothing more than a gas station).  How much "profit" there
is can vary widely depending on which set of books you're reading.
russ
response 97 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 6 04:27 UTC 2003

Re #94:  That begs the question of why anyone is *allowed* to
arbitrarily complicate such financial dealings.  (Or keep one set
of books for the taxman and another for the public.)

The IRS can disallow any deductions for things done purely to evade
taxes.  You appear to be saying they're not doing their job.  Guess
what, I agree!

I'll bet the over-complication of the tax code is one reason we are
dragging our recovery from this recession; small business is the
engine of employment growth, but it can't take advantage of the
loopholes used by the big guys so it can't get financial leverage.
mdw
response 98 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 7 02:00 UTC 2003

Financial "deals" are as complicated or simple as the principals choose.
Some people *like* to receive their income spread over a 25 year
amortized basis, with a cap on earnings in any one year, and an option
to renew.

Accounting of any significant sized organization is guaranteed to be
complicated.  Here's a simple example of why it's hard: how much does it
cost to run your car per-mile?  Think carefully.  Besides the gasoline,
there is the cost of oil changes, replacement tires, and brake pads.
Then there is the insurance - which is generally by time rather than
miles, so the marginal cost of driving an extra mile insurance-wise is
nearly "0".  Then there is the initial cost of the automobile, cost of
any repairs done, and the current market value of the vehicle, which
itself isn't absolutely fixed since it really depends on the best value
you could get for the vehicle, which you can't know without actually
selling it, and depends on whether you sell to your neighbors, privately
via the newspaper, or to a car dealer.  If the car was bought on time,
or leased, then that too needs to be factored in, somehow.  And then
there are the imponderables -- if you bought your car more than several
years ago, the dollars you spent for it are worth more than the dollars
you earn today.  If the 2nd set of tires you bought wore out twice as
rapidly as the first, does that mean those tire miles were twice as
expensive? How about snow tires?  Spare tires?  How do you count mileage
from them? What period of time should the cost of repairs be spread out
over? &Etc.  The answer to a lot of these questions is more or less
arbitrary.  Your car isn't going to cost any different in total if you
count the cost of tires against the mileage you got from them, or all up
front as a lump sum.  Fortunately for the average person, most of these
account decisions are not only arbitrary, but unnecessary.  But, now,
for a taxi cab company...
gull
response 99 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 7 14:43 UTC 2003

Re #86: And in Michigan, cars newer than 1982 are taxed (in the form of
a registration fee) based on their original purchase price.  So an '83
Mercedes with a current value of $2000 would cost more to register than
a brand new Ford Focus that costs $14,000.

Re #94: Enron being a classic example.  They never paid any taxes.

Re #97: I don't think that will ever be fixed.  It's the big guys who
have the clout.  The campaign contributions from small businesses aren't
big enough to buy any legislation that would favor them instead.
russ
response 100 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 7 21:27 UTC 2003

Re #98:  If you check the IRS publications, there are detailed
instructions for expenses and depreciation related to vehicles.
You have (had) 3 choices for depreciation (now four, with the
option to immediately expense it), and precious little else.
Not at all complex as these things go.
scg
response 101 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 7 23:24 UTC 2003

So am I reading correctly that Russ considers it far better to pick a tax
scheme without consideration for the consiquences, rather than to think about
the results a tax scheme might have?
russ
response 102 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 8 21:38 UTC 2003

Re #101:  As I am on record as favoring carbon taxes, you are quite
wrong; I think that far MORE thought should be given to the consequences
of tax schemes, especially loopholes and exemptions.  AAMOF I was on
record in 1990 or so opposing CAFE standards without fuel-tax increases
(perverse incentives, since borne out by data) and the CARB electric
vehicle mandate (no incentive for consumers to adopt EVs while fuel was
cheap and the subsidy of EVs via conventional vehicle sales amounted
to a hidden tax on new vehicles rather than on use of petroleum, which
was the behavior the policy was allegedly aimed at reducing).

Right now the US has a policy (not sure exactly what form it takes) of
encouraging natural gas-fired electric generation capacity but we have
drilling restrictions and import restrictions on natural gas.  The
result is that NG prices are heading up, up, up and it's going to be
very expensive to heat homes this coming winter (and cool many of them
this summer).  Again, this needed better consideration of tax policy
(I presume it is an investment tax credit or production credit or both,
thus it falls under tax policy) esp. as related to other policy.

Tax policy is a rather blunt instrument, and trying to "narrowly tailor"
parts of it to promote particular ends has proven to be a bad idea.  It
works much better for promoting or discouraging things on a large scale.
gull
response 103 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 9 13:43 UTC 2003

Re #102: You don't think a carbon tax would be using the tax code for
social engineering?
russ
response 104 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 10 04:01 UTC 2003

Re #103:  Oh, of course I do.  That's one situation where the size of
the problem is a decent match to a big, blunt instrument.  Anytime
you're trying to discourage something, a tax works amazingly well;
tobacco consumption, for example.  But you've got to be careful that
the tax isn't too easy and profitable to evade so you don't create
opportunities for organized crime, e.g. smuggling.

As long as we've got to have taxes, taxing things that people should
probably be doing less of seems better than the alternative.
gull
response 105 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 10 13:07 UTC 2003

Great.  I await the introduction of a tax on having children. ;>
keesan
response 106 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 10 16:05 UTC 2003

There is currently a negative tax on having children.
klg
response 107 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 10 16:07 UTC 2003

As well as a negative tax on one's own existence??
tsty
response 108 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 16 08:11 UTC 2003

quality conytributions - gotta love it - until the affirmative
action discussin got derailed into , what, irs?
  
start a new item.
  
this is affirmative action.
  
i am glad to hear that some non-recipients have chaffed at the 
suggestion/presumption that they were recipients =  and happier
still that they graduated inthe tip of their class.
  
such preformance does more for eliminating racism than any other
action.
tsty
response 109 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 17 06:26 UTC 2003

and .. i am glad that *my* soulution - individualized scrutiny - has
been affirmed by the supreme court. no other solution was rational.
mvpel
response 110 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 17 18:49 UTC 2003

Hopefully that will mean the end of undergraduate racism at UofM, since they
can't apply individual scrutiny to the tens of thousands of applicants they
get every year.
bhelliom
response 111 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 23 13:16 UTC 2003

*snorts*  As if that totally takes care of the problem.  "Undergraduate
racism" my ass.
lynne
response 112 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 23 14:02 UTC 2003

heard an amusing commercial for Comedy Central's new show this morning:
"There *is* a lot of racial tension on the force.  It's all because of
Andy Garcia.  He can't help it, poor guy--he's a Mexican."  :)
tod
response 113 of 113: Mark Unseen   Jul 23 17:09 UTC 2003

This response has been erased.

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