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| Author |
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| 25 new of 378 responses total. |
slynne
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response 9 of 378:
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Mar 3 18:27 UTC 2006 |
I never said that being over a 100 pounds overweight is normal. Clearly
it isnt. But what I am saying is that there is no evidence that a
person who is 100 pounds overweight will be healthier if they lost 100
pounds. In fact, there is evidence that if a person who is a 100 pounds
overweight goes on a diet and loses weight and then gains it back, it
will have negative consequences to their health. 95% of people who lose
weight gain it back, btw.
Denial is thinking that if you are seriously overweight, you can just
go on a diet and become a thin person. What you can do if you are over
a hundred pounds overweight is eat a healthy diet and exercise which is
the exact same thing you can do if you are thin and want to improve
your health. Imagine that!
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edina
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response 10 of 378:
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Mar 3 18:35 UTC 2006 |
Here's the question:
Do you like yourself? Do you feel you are good to yourself? And are those
answers formed by society or yourself?
I am not a thin person. If I got down to a size 12, I would look wrong. I'm
designed to be bigger than societal norms. That being said, I take care of
my body, I like how I look (for the most part- probably more so than the
average woman), and I try not to look to society to validate that.
Studies on whether it's healthy or not seem stupid. Fat people use it to
validate them being fat, thin people use them to validate being thin. If your
doctor says, "look, you need to take some weight off because of ____", that
should be a strong compass.
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slynne
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response 11 of 378:
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Mar 3 18:38 UTC 2006 |
I think that sometimes doctors are wrong.
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tod
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response 12 of 378:
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Mar 3 18:48 UTC 2006 |
re #9
I think what you're saying is that a person shouldn't bother to lower their
weight if they're obese cuz they'll just gain it all back. I agree with that
sentiment if it means the person is not modifying the behavior that causes
their obesity. Fad diets and stuff like that aren't worth it in the long run
because of what you're implying. The part where I disagree though is that
it will be gained back irregardless. I also disagree that a person will be
equally healthy (i.e. live longer or have less physical complications) if they
remain obese. I think studies have proven that lovehandles predict a shorter
lifespan.
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slynne
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response 13 of 378:
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Mar 3 19:17 UTC 2006 |
Studies have shown that there is a correlation with being obese and a
shorter lifespan. They have not shown that losing weight leads to
longer life.
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jadecat
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response 14 of 378:
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Mar 3 19:43 UTC 2006 |
In rats it does. My sister wasn't working on the project, but in one of
the labs near her at UPenn they found that if rats were slightly
underfed they lived longer than the ones that were fed the 'correct'
amounts. (either this was at U-Penn or she read about it) Problem with
people is they don't want to constantly be 'slightly starving' and nor
should they.
If people just 'diet' than yes, there is a greater chance of them
rebounding. However, if they make a conscious effort to alter the way
they eat, the way they view food, and their excersize patterns- than
it's not so much a diet change as a lifestyle change. Those kind of
patterns can become ingrained and the odds of a rebound are much lower.
I'm not the thinnest person around, and I would like to lose weight so I
can be healthier. But to me that means eating more fruits and veggies,
and working out so that I CAN run up the three flights of stairs and not
feel winded.
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slynne
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response 15 of 378:
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Mar 3 20:33 UTC 2006 |
I remember reading some studies that suggested that reduced calorie
diets improved one's chances of living longer. I remember watching some
TV show where they were interviewing this really skinny guy who was
restricting his own calories for that reason. Yet there seems to be
some recent research that shows that being underweight is as bad for
you as being severely obese and that being slightly overweight is
actually improves one's risk of dying.
http://w.ick.ca/5044
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jep
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response 16 of 378:
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Mar 3 20:45 UTC 2006 |
My stepdaughter, the 15 year old with the chronic pain in her foot, was
told by her family doctor that her cholesterol and triglycerides were
too low. "Don't you ever go to McDonald's?" he asked her. Just try
convincing a teenaged girl in America she's too skinny.
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edina
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response 17 of 378:
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Mar 3 20:47 UTC 2006 |
re 11 To whom are you trying to prove your point? Society? Grex? Yourself?
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scholar
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response 18 of 378:
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Mar 3 20:52 UTC 2006 |
Thinner people are more attractive than fatter people.
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edina
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response 19 of 378:
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Mar 3 20:55 UTC 2006 |
I think that every person is different in what they are attracted to.
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slynne
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response 20 of 378:
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Mar 3 21:26 UTC 2006 |
resp:17 I honestly think that there is something wrong with our
society. I think we are obsessed with weight. I think that has some
negative consequences. It leads to eating disorders. It causes people
to feel badly about themselves. It puts an entire group of people at
the margins of our society. It wastes money as people keep spending
money on diet programs that dont work.
I believe that talking about issues is a way to expose people to ideas
and to get them to think about things they might not have otherwise
thought about. I think ultimately I would like it if I could convince
society and I think a lot of people are starting to do that. I wouldnt
mind getting some people on grex to think about this kind of stuff. I
dont need to convince myself.
On a personal level, I have to admit that I have not gone to see a
medical doctor for a routine exam in over eight years. The reason I
havent gone is because I often would feel like a failure because the
doctor would tell me I needed to lose weight and then I wouldnt lose
weight. But recently, as a result of reading a lot of fat positive
websites and books, I have come to realization that it is wrong for
doctors to tell patients to lose weight. I mean come on...95% of people
who lose weight do not keep it off. Losing weight in and of itself is
not the answer. Weight alone might not even be an indicator of health.
Obesity is a risk factor for certain diseases, I dont doubt that. But
so are a lot of things like a person's race or gender. You dont see
doctors telling men to become women because women have a lower risk of
heart disease. I think telling fat people to become thin people is
pretty much the same thing when you consider that almost everyone who
loses weight gains it back.
Now a doctor certainly can tell a patient to eat a good diet and to
exercise. That is responsible. But contrary to what a lot of people
think, it is possible to eat a healthy diet and to exercise and to
still be fat.
But, of course, this isnt *really* about health anyways. It is about
morality. At least on some level it is.
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rcurl
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response 21 of 378:
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Mar 3 23:43 UTC 2006 |
It is probably sensible to reduce one's risk factors from all medical causes.
I don't see that because one can't change one's race or gender that one
should not change one's weight or mercury consumption. Isn't it reasonable
for a doctor to tell people to eat a healthy diet and to exercise and what
their most healthy weight would be?
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edina
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response 22 of 378:
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Mar 3 23:48 UTC 2006 |
Apparently not.
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tod
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response 23 of 378:
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Mar 4 00:20 UTC 2006 |
Lynne, I hope you go to see a doc for a checkup and listen to everything the
doc says. You don't have to believe the doc or anything, but at least you
can get some data on how you're doing. I go to the doc every 2 years at
least. He's my age. He tells me "Hey, you know..I've got another patient
about your build and he started the Atkins and lost 60 lbs and he feels great
and his good cholesterol levels improved." So I did Atkins and now I'm back
to low calorie nutrition just cuz its better on my skin. I totally know I'm
overweight and that its bad for my long term health. I'm doing what I
can...lots of walking and eating a couple apples and yogurts every day along
with tons of water..and yea I have a decent meal for dinner or lunch depending
on my hunger. The big thing for me is keeping the kitchen and my work
backpack supplied with nutritious stuff and making sure I get out to walk to
relieve stress and enjoysunshine, etc etc etc
8 years is too long. Please go get a checkup. I'm not judging you or
anything but I'm just advising you cuz at our age we can't afford to slack
off from the doc more than maybe 3 years at a time. History of smoking and
being overweight is nothing to take lightly.
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keesan
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response 24 of 378:
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Mar 4 01:47 UTC 2006 |
Jim was told that his cholesterol was too low (145 total) so he started eating
eggs and cheese once in a while. 160 is supposed to be ideal. I have not
bothered measuring mine. Changing the types of things you eat affects your
weight without trying to diet. I weighed 20 lb more when I ate school food,
which was always greasy and had a lot of desserts.
My grandmother was obese all her life and died at about age 70 of diabetes.
Nobody else in the large family has had diabetes. I have one neighbor,
overeight, with diabetes, who was told to lose weight and it would get better.
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slynne
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response 25 of 378:
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Mar 4 03:28 UTC 2006 |
resp:21 - It is reasonable for a doctor to tell a patient to eat a
healthy diet and to exercise. It is not reasonable for a doctor to tell
a patient to lose weight especially when 95% of the people who go on
diets to lose weight end up putting it back on which probably is
harmful. It isnt even reasonable for a doctor to assume that an
overweight patient doesnt already eat a healthy diet or exercise.
resp:23 - I have an appointment for March 27. I have some books I might
bring with me though including _The Diet Myth_ by Paul Campos. And I
know that doctors dont know everything and have their own biases
including bias against fat people. If I dont like the doctor, I'll fire
her and get another. On a side note, I am kind of bummed that the health
center at EMU doesnt take my insurance because when I went there a
couple of years ago to get some Zoloft they were really respectful. When
it was time to be weighed and I hesitated, the doctor suggested that I
get on the scale backwards so I wouldnt see the number. She said that it
is more important to focus on behavior like eating well and exercising
than a number on a scale. I think more and more doctors are coming
around to that way of thinking. FWIW, smoking is WAY worse for a person
than being fat.
resp:24 - Well, heck..if we are going to bring anecdotal evidence into
this. Out of my four grandparents, three died at the age of 88. All
three were of normal weight their entire adult lives. One of them
developed type 2 diabetes when he was in his seventies. My one living
grandparent, who is currently well into her nineties, is obese and was
fat her entire life. She has lost some weight in the past couple of
years but that is very common with older people. She has never had
diabetes or cancer. She has a heart problem but I am going to go out on
a limb here and say that it has more to do with her age than her weight.
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rcurl
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response 26 of 378:
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Mar 4 07:34 UTC 2006 |
I didn't say that a doctor should tell a patient they should lose weight
(though it is a reasonable thing for a doctor to do). Because of your
sensitivity to the subject of losing weight I said "Isn't it reasonable
for a doctor to tell people....... what their most healthy weight would
be?" Then you can decide what you will do about it (but don't blame the
doctor if you get sick).
I don't understand the argument that doctors should not tell patients to
lose weight because the patient will inevitably (really?) gain it back
again. That sounds like the patient intends to gain it back again. After
all, if one goes through the trouble of losing weight, it is less trouble
to keep it off.
Re #24: I am surprised that Jim's doctor thinks a cholesterol level of 145
is too low. Mine is 135 and my doctor is delighted.
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furs
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response 27 of 378:
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Mar 4 11:56 UTC 2006 |
re 25. Go see Dr. Thiry in AA. he's awesome. I went there when I
was at my heaviest and I think he handled it the way it should be
done. He just said after my annual physical that I was very healthy
and that at some point my weight might become a factor and if I ever
wanted his help, just to ask. He never brought it up again after
that, until I did. I love that guy.
I think generally if you are over weight, you can be healthy, and I
have been living proof of that. I think there are lots of overweight
people who are healthier than some thin people. However, if you are
over weight and can't walk up a flight of stairs without being winded,
you might want to focus on some exercise.
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nharmon
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response 28 of 378:
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Mar 4 12:53 UTC 2006 |
You'd be winded too Jeanne if you had 100lbs on your back and carried it
up a flight of stairs! ;)
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slynne
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response 29 of 378:
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Mar 4 13:58 UTC 2006 |
resp:26 Doctors are not supposed to advise people to do things that will
harm them. Studies have shown that a stable weight is more healthy than
a weight that goes up and down. Studies on weight loss show that 95% of
the people who lose weight gain it back. It is not more trouble to keep
it off than it is to lose it. Trust me, we live in a fat phobic society
where fat people are not treated well so people have a seriously
powerful motivation other than their health to lose weight and keep it
off. I would say that with that kind of failure rate, only the most
dedicated people manage to lose weight and keep it off. So it is more
like race or gender than you might think. It isnt something people have
that much control over. It is, however, something people like to think
they have a lot of control over. This is why I say that a doctor telling
a patient to lose weight is very much like a doctor telling a patient
to change their race or gender for health reasons.
As for telling a patient what their ideal weight should be and then
letting them decide. How would a doctor know what that patient's ideal
weight should be? A BMI chart? Those are very flawed. The idea that
there is just one "right" weight is flawed. There isnt even all that
much evidence that being less than a 100 lbs overweight causes one to
have any health issues at all. Oh sure, there are studies that show a
correlation between being overweight and bad health. But there are
studies that show that black people tend to have poorer health than
white people, that less educated people have poorer health than more
educated people, that people in lower socio-economic groups have poorer
health than people in higher socio-economic groups. My thought,
sometimes, is that it is the stress of living in a fat-phobic culture
that could be the cause of increased health problems of overweight
people and that it isnt the actual weight that is the problem
resp:27 I did consider going to Dr Thiry. But ultimately I decided that
I would really prefer a woman doctor. Re stairs, here is what I dont get
about stairs. I can go up one flight of stairs, no problem. Two flights
and I get only very slightly winded but three flights and I am *winded*
It goes from totally fine to panting really suddenly. Never could figure
that out.
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furs
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response 30 of 378:
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Mar 4 14:05 UTC 2006 |
re 28. I have had that in the past.
re 29. That's because you're starting to reach your capacity with
your lungs. What would be interesting it to check your heart rate
after each flight to see how much it increases.
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slynne
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response 31 of 378:
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Mar 4 14:13 UTC 2006 |
hmmm. I never thought of checking my heart rate after each flight.
Sounds like a good lunch time project at work ;)
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slynne
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response 32 of 378:
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Mar 4 14:15 UTC 2006 |
except there are only two flights of stairs to go up there. I'll need to
go to a taller building. I sometimes wonder if the two flight thing is
related to the fact that usually the only stairs I climb are at work so
I have gotten used to going up two flights.
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mary
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response 33 of 378:
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Mar 4 14:53 UTC 2006 |
My 2 cents: I don't need to see morbidity statistics to see the
correlation between obesity and illness. I see it daily. I see the 25
year old 300 pound (but otherwise healthy) woman who presents post
appendenctomy where the wound wouldn't close. She'll have months
and months of potent antibiotics, painful wound irrigation and packing,
and eventual scarring. And that's if all goes well. I see the obese
patient who thinks he is doing just fine (avoiding routine physicals)
right up to the point where they suddenly can't seem to "get enough air".
When the chest xray is done it's discovered there is already profound
cardiomegaly, secondary to the strain that extra weight has put on the
heart. Irreversible cardiomegaly. Get a cold and lay around on the
couch for two or three days and your risk for a lethal PE goes way up
if you are 100 pounds overweight. And on, and on.
You quote the stastic that 95% of all diets fail. Is that true for
those in the catagory of morbidly obese who enter a structured
program under medical supervision?
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