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| Author |
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| 15 new of 23 responses total. |
dbratman
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response 9 of 23:
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Feb 19 19:36 UTC 2003 |
Defining rap by the "pushiness" and other aspects of the attitude is
rather like defining science fiction as pulp stories with spaceships
and bug-eyed monsters. Sure, it's characteristic of the genre, but
it's not the definition. In rap's case, the definition involves
rhythmic speaking over a semi-musical beat, and that describes "One
Night in Bangkok". It's not sprechstimme, it's not narration, it's not
any of the previously existing ways of talking with music: it's rap.
It's just not black ghetto rap or imitation thereof.
I'm not sure if lyrics that make sense are characteristic of 80s rock.
I've been listening to "We Built This City" several times over the last
few days, and I haven't any real idea what the heck they're talking
about. Besides, didn't Talking Heads flourish during the 80s? Now
there were some cryptic lyrics for you.
But I suppose encryption is relative. I have not had the honor of
hearing any of those "songs who go from a she to a you to a she again
in addressing (supposedly) the same individual."
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anderyn
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response 10 of 23:
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Feb 19 19:54 UTC 2003 |
I will see if I can find one to cite for you (I know there's one that REALLY
annoys me by Survivor, which I think is on their greatest hits album)...
Other than that, well... about rap... I've never understood the rhthmic part
because I can never HEAR the words -- I find the meanings of lyrics and the
way the words work together very important to my enjoyment of music, and rap
has never worked for me because it's all about the "push" to my ears, and not
about what's being said (at least in the stuff I've heard, which may or may
not be mainstream, although I suspect that it is, 'cause it's what was on the
radio in Detroit) -- again, if I could hear the words, I'd have a better time
understanding what the appeal is, but I can't. NEver have been able to parse
them out from the "push" of the rhythm and the overlying music.
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anderyn
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response 11 of 23:
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Feb 19 21:42 UTC 2003 |
And I quote the whole lyrics of "High on You" by Survivor:
There you stood, that'll teach ya
To look so good and feel so right
Let me tell you 'bout the girl I met last night
It's understood I had to reach ya
I let the wheel of fortune spin
I touched your hand before the crowd started crashin' in
Now I'm higher than a kite
I know I'm getting hooked on your love
Talkin' to myself, runnin' in the heat
Beggin' for your touch in the middle of the street
And I, I can't stop thinkin' 'bout you, girl
I must be livin' in a fantasy world
I'm so high on you
Smart and coy, a little crazy
The kinda face that starts a fight
Let me tell you 'bout the girl I had last night
Piercin' eyes like a raven
You seemed to share my secret sin.
We were high before the night started kickin' in
Now I'm screamin' in the night
I know I'm getting hooked on your love
Talkin' to myself, runnin' in the heat
Beggin' for your touch in the middle of the street
And I, I can't stop thinkin' 'bout you, girl
I must be livin' in a fantasy world
I've searched the whole world over
To find a heart so true
Such complete intoxication,
I'm high on you
There you stood, that'll teach ya
To look so good and feel so right
Let me tell you' bout the girl I met last night
Now I"m higher than a kite
I know I'm getting hooked on your love
Talkin' to myself, runnin' in the heat
Beggin' for your love in the middle of the street
And I, I can't stop thinkin' 'bout you, girl
I must be living in a fantasy world
I've searched the whole world over
To find a love so true
Such complete intoxication
I'm high on you
I'm high on you
I'm high on you
So there you have it. He's talking to someone about the girl, then TO the
girl, and then about her again (I think!). I *really really* get annoyed by
this particular song's lyrics.
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krj
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response 12 of 23:
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Feb 22 22:31 UTC 2003 |
I meant to paste in this NY Times link earlier; it'll go into the
pay archive tonight. :/ Maybe somebody stuck it on Usenet or somewhere
else where Google might find it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/16/arts/16ROSE.html?pagewanted=print&positio
n=top
"Singing to the Grown-Ups, and Selling" by Jody Rosen
The essay argues, in effect, that we boomers have become our parents,
with our attitudes towards hip-hop recapitulating our parents'
attitudes towards rock.
The article charges that the aging boomers, who are rallying around
an idea of "authenticity," are mostly listening to pretty boring
music. Norah Jones is the artist most criticized in the piece.
The author doesn't say it in these words, but the argument is
essentially that we have recreated our version of the old boring
Easy Listening/Adult Contemporary music which our parents
listened to in their mature years, while all the artistic action
is happening in hip hop.
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jaklumen
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response 13 of 23:
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Feb 22 23:47 UTC 2003 |
any chance you could paste the text? I keep forgetting the Times
wants you to subscribe so they send it to you by e-mail. I'm not
going to do that.
Interesting idea.. I'm seeing this even on the edges of the
generation, that is, I have some friends that aren't boomers but are
barely Gen Xers. They listen to "classic rock" (and I've noticed even
that category is getting expanded to some 80's stuff on Clear Channel
stations) and think hip-hop is crap.
If the trends are at all similar, there may be some years ahead for
hip-hop to continue to come into the mainstream. There aren't many
white-faced acts that are acknowledged yet; this still seems to be
earmarked as a black, ghetto thing (well, it seems more and more that
acts are rapping about the clubs more than they are the projects.)
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happyboy
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response 14 of 23:
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Feb 23 18:48 UTC 2003 |
interesting idea. i tend to like the hiphop stuff that folks
have played for me with the more radical political leanings
(dead prez) most of the rest of it seems to be women hating/
self hating trash.
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jaklumen
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response 15 of 23:
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Feb 25 03:33 UTC 2003 |
The music may be going through some growing pains. Did rock face any
similar problems?
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dbratman
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response 16 of 23:
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Feb 25 07:13 UTC 2003 |
resp:11 - Twila, I would have guessed those Survivor lyrics depicted
the singer telling the girl both about herself and another girl. But I
am not hip to these things.
resp:12 - I am curmudgeonly enough to claim that the parents were
right, on both occasions. Most of the rock that parents widely
denounced, back in the days when parents denounced rock, was eminently
denouncable. It is recorded that many parents actually liked the
Beatles, yes, even in 1964. This might have something to do with the
fact that the Beatles were actually good ...
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charcat
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response 17 of 23:
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Feb 26 09:23 UTC 2003 |
one of the best rock and roll songs I know of was the cream, crossroads.
3 guys, live doing great stuff. makes this old cat dance everytime ;)
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dbratman
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response 18 of 23:
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Feb 27 02:48 UTC 2003 |
If you mean Cream, the band, they're at the bottom of my list. When a
Cream song turned up on "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" a few years ago, and
the only clue to its identity was that it was a late 60s rock song, I
guessed it was Cream because it was so totally lacking in any appeal.
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mcnally
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response 19 of 23:
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Feb 27 04:39 UTC 2003 |
While not everything Cream recorded was a success (their song "Toad",
for example, is practically synonymous with comically self-indulgent
drum solos) I personally find a lot of their music very likable.
I'll admit, though, to a distinct preference for the band's own
material over their covers of classic blues tracks like "Crossroads"
and "Spoonful".
Nevertheless, you're going to have a fight on your hands if you try to
take away my copy of "Disraeli Gears".
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dbratman
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response 20 of 23:
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Feb 28 09:06 UTC 2003 |
Why should I -want- your copy of a Cream album?
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remmers
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response 21 of 23:
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Feb 28 12:26 UTC 2003 |
I'd take it, but I already have "Disraeli Gears".
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jaklumen
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response 22 of 23:
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Mar 5 01:58 UTC 2003 |
I finally got a copy of the NY Times article from krj =)
Again, I think the gist of the article is that a lot of commercial
music (since the 1950s anyway) is aimed at specific age groups. I
laugh when Grexers complain about Britney and NSync-- I don't doubt
that they might be lacking in a little talent, but they are examples
of formulas that are not going to go away. The music is generally
about the adolescent stuff-- mating and dating, bump and grind, etc.,
etc. The lovestruck girl, sex kitten, hunk, angry young man (and
variants of such) are common stereotypes.
Adult Contemporary/Easy Listening or whatever you want to call it
seems very driven by nostalgia. What was cutting edge once, became
popular and mainstream, is now mellowed and tamed with hindsight. No
more scattered hormones. People have settled down, and are less
interested in stirring things up.
No matter how young boomers think they are, they cannot escape it.
There have been a number of notable exceptions-- musicians that cut
across the generation gap, but by and large it seems to me that a lot
of the tunes seem to be about romantic love.
Just a theory.
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twenex
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response 23 of 23:
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Jul 18 16:41 UTC 2005 |
Burying rock (especially classic rock) is crazy. Should Beethoven be banned
just because he wrote before 1990? Should Elgar? If you're going to ban
anything, you'd be much better off banning disco and late-90's crap like
techno. And, of course, other people would say that you would be better off
banning classical music and punk, and keeping techno around. Live and let
live, say I.
But if this ever changing world in which we live in
Makes you give in and cry
Say Live and Let Die
(Live and Let Die)
Live and Let Die
(Live and Let Die)
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