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Grex > Oldcoop > #76: member initiative: do not restore two items | |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 357 responses total. |
cyklone
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response 87 of 357:
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Jan 12 03:36 UTC 2004 |
See my proposal in #75, #90
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naftee
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response 88 of 357:
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Jan 12 06:01 UTC 2004 |
re 85 Then clearly they should become staff, since they're doing the staff's
job.
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jep
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response 89 of 357:
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Jan 12 19:10 UTC 2004 |
What needs to happen to bring this proposal to a vote? I am not
familiar with the procedure.
Thanks!
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other
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response 90 of 357:
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Jan 12 19:14 UTC 2004 |
item:coop,2 By-laws:
ARTICLE 5: VOTING PROCEDURES
a. Any member of Grex may make a motion by entering it as the
text of a discussion item in a computer conference on Grex
designated for this purpose. The item is then used for
discussion of the motion. All Grex users may participate in
the discussion. No action on the motion is taken for two
weeks. At the end of two weeks, the author may then submit a
final version for a vote by the membership. The vote is
conducted on-line over a period of ten days.
b. A motion will be considered to have passed if more
votes were cast in favor than against, except as provided
for bylaw amendments.
c. For voting purposes, a day will run midnight to midnight. In
the event of continuous system downtime of 24 hours or more,
the voting period will be adjusted to compensate.
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jep
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response 91 of 357:
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Jan 12 19:30 UTC 2004 |
Thanks!
I grow very weary of this process and of the attacks, the bizarre
attempts to circumvent what is going on, and of following the same
discussion in 11 different items.
I am looking forward to this being over with. I expect to then take a
vacation from coop, and possibly even from Grex. No, I won't be mass
deleting responses from all of Grex or anything. There is something
wrong, though, when it requires this much effort, and discussion, and
endurance, to make a simple request. I didn't expect it and wasn't
prepared for it, and I resent it.
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gull
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response 92 of 357:
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Jan 12 19:35 UTC 2004 |
It works the same for you as for everyone else, jep.
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jp2
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response 93 of 357:
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Jan 12 19:36 UTC 2004 |
This response has been erased.
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jp2
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response 94 of 357:
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Jan 12 19:36 UTC 2004 |
This response has been erased.
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jep
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response 95 of 357:
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Jan 12 21:46 UTC 2004 |
re resp:92: I have not been through this type of process before on
Grex. I haven't been through anything here with this level of attacks.
I've been through a similar process, when I was on Arbornet's Board of
Directors, but I was elected to that. I knew what I was getting into.
If you think it should be normal that a Grex member should go through
all of these items, attacks, haranguing, difficulty, etc. as part of
sending a request to the staff, well, I disagree. That's what I did,
and it's been a lot more difficult and distressing than what I had
expected.
jp2: You're not worth responding to any more.
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willcome
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response 96 of 357:
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Jan 12 21:49 UTC 2004 |
jp2's and jep's spat is
SAD
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cyklone
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response 97 of 357:
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Jan 12 21:55 UTC 2004 |
All actions have consequences. Some are unintended. Some are undesirable.
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other
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response 98 of 357:
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Jan 12 21:59 UTC 2004 |
Some are tasty.
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gull
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response 99 of 357:
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Jan 12 22:51 UTC 2004 |
Re resp:95: When you deliberately get a staff member to do something
that most other staff members feel is a violation of policy, I think you
can expect it to be controversial.
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jmsaul
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response 100 of 357:
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Jan 12 23:08 UTC 2004 |
John -- if you had followed Jan's advice and had the items temporarily removed
pending a membership vote, rather than taking his out-of-control wife's help
and getting them summarily deleted, you'd have a lot more friends on this
issue.
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naftee
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response 101 of 357:
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Jan 12 23:31 UTC 2004 |
re 95 They didn't start as "attacks". They migrated.
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jep
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response 102 of 357:
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Jan 12 23:46 UTC 2004 |
re resp:100: No one suggested to me that the items be temporarily
removed pending a member vote, until the items were already removed.
*No one* spoke to me at *any* point, other than Valerie, until *after*
the items were removed.
The Board and staff were carrying on a discussion about my request, in
which I was not included, and about which I was not even informed for a
day after I sent my request. I heard about that from Valerie as well.
Can you go over again what it was I was supposed to do in order to
retain goodwill among both the staff and membership?
I deny that I went outside of any reasonable expectation anyone could
have of "the system". My initial e-mail went to staff@grex.org. So
did my next message (after I had received not a *peep* by way of
response, from *anyone*). I worked within the system to the very best
of my ability. I'm doing so now.
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jep
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response 103 of 357:
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Jan 12 23:57 UTC 2004 |
Whups, one baff member had sent me a personal message, discussing
personal matters related to my request but with no policy discussion of
any kind, before the items were deleted.
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gull
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response 104 of 357:
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Jan 12 23:59 UTC 2004 |
You admitted in earlier responses that when you saw what valerie had
done, and that she was leaving, you realized you had a limited window in
which to get your items removed. To me it sounds like you knew you were
taking advantage of a questionable loophole.
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jep
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response 105 of 357:
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Jan 13 00:14 UTC 2004 |
View hidden response.
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jep
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response 106 of 357:
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Jan 13 00:22 UTC 2004 |
My response resp:76 contains all of the e-mails between myself and
staff members, discussing the deletion of my items, including all
headers. I sent the first one from Grex and then the rest from my
account on M-Net. My Grex e-mail is forwarded to M-Net. Most of the e-
mails were included to either baff or staff
I have omitted the personal message I mentioned as it is of no value in
this discussion.
All of my contact with the staff of Grex on the matter is included, in
both directions. I excluded a couple of lines of comments which would
not affect this discussion.
An explanation of Valerie's suggestion that I just mass-delete my own
responses... she sent it to me at 10:00 p.m. Uncharacteristically for
me, I had logged off for the night and gone to bed early. I never got
to respond to her suggestion before she deleted my items.
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jep
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response 107 of 357:
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Jan 13 00:24 UTC 2004 |
Whups, the e-mail thread is in my response resp:105, which was posted
from Backtalk as a "hidden" response. It's a bit lengthy., which is
why I posted it as hidden.
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willcome
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response 108 of 357:
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Jan 13 00:25 UTC 2004 |
Expurgated.
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jep
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response 109 of 357:
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Jan 13 00:56 UTC 2004 |
To read from Picospan:
1) Get to the "Respond or pass?" prompt
2) Type "set noforget"
3) Type "only 105"
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jmsaul
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response 110 of 357:
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Jan 13 01:15 UTC 2004 |
Re #102: If you want goodwill from those of us who think this was wrong,
allow staff to restore your items, minus your responses.
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cyklone
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response 111 of 357:
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Jan 13 01:22 UTC 2004 |
What Joe said. That or get a legal opinion.
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