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Grex > Coop12 > #127: Grex, once again, has pissed me off | |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 184 responses total. |
jmsaul
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response 84 of 184:
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Sep 7 14:09 UTC 2002 |
(Incidentally, I don't speak for Arbornet, I'm just speaking as a long-time
member of the community.)
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mynxcat
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response 85 of 184:
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Sep 7 14:16 UTC 2002 |
They don't require any ID. At least if you pay by PayPal, you just make a
payment and thats it.
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remmers
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response 86 of 184:
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Sep 7 16:15 UTC 2002 |
Arbornet still seems to block outbound telnet, ssh, and ftp for guests.
As I remember the discussions when Grex was formulating its internet
access policy, the idea that Grex should be primarily a destination,
not a stepping-stone, was definitely a factor in the equation, although
not the only consideration.
By the way, Grex's outbound access policy was established by a member
vote. Therefore, one can't really say why the policy is the way it
is -- each member who voted for it had their own reasons for doing
so, which they weren't required to divulge.
Since the policy was established by a vote of the members, any
proposed change should probably be voted on too.
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jp2
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response 87 of 184:
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Sep 7 17:07 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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aruba
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response 88 of 184:
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Sep 7 17:32 UTC 2002 |
Grex doesn't have any employees to get disgruntled.
"far too high": How high is it? Let's hear some numbers. What do you think
the probability is that our list of IDs will be lost or stolen?
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jp2
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response 89 of 184:
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Sep 7 19:47 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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scott
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response 90 of 184:
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Sep 7 20:28 UTC 2002 |
Seems kind of hypocritical, though. Do you refuse to use credit cards at
restaurants because the risk of CC fraud is higher than zero (indeed, higher
than what you're complaining about Grex's risk being)?
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remmers
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response 91 of 184:
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Sep 7 20:39 UTC 2002 |
I've been thinking the same thing as I've been following this
discussion. Considering the number of times I hand my credit
card to a stranger over the course of any given week, often
to have them take it out of the room for a few minutes, I'd
expect that my risk of identity theft is a lot higher from
that kind of thing than from any of Grex's practices. So
let's try to keep all this in perspective. I think what
we're seeing here is a case of much ado about very little.
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jmsaul
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response 92 of 184:
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Sep 7 21:14 UTC 2002 |
On one level, it is. On another level, it's just another example of people
collecting and retaining personal data they don't need "because we can," and
it's worth criticizing that philosophy on principle. There's far too much
of it going on these days.
If you don't have a clear, pressing need for information like drivers' license
and credit card numbers, you shouldn't be collecting it. Period.
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aruba
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response 93 of 184:
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Sep 7 21:17 UTC 2002 |
Jamie, quantum physics should tell you that the probability that your brain
will suddenly tunnel out of your head and land on the keyboard in front of
you is greater than zero. Do you worry about that?
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scott
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response 94 of 184:
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Sep 7 21:44 UTC 2002 |
Re 92: So, why are you wasting your time (and ours) when you could be doing
a much greater public service by reforming how restaurants deal with credit
cards?
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polytarp
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response 95 of 184:
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Sep 7 21:52 UTC 2002 |
Act locally; think globally.
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gull
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response 96 of 184:
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Sep 7 22:05 UTC 2002 |
Re #73: You can get an anonymous Hotmail account. I've done it.
I mean, they ask you for personal info, but they don't check it.
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carson
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response 97 of 184:
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Sep 7 22:06 UTC 2002 |
resp:94 (because he cares about Grex, and [most] people on Grex are
willing to consider such a topic reasonably? a wild concept, I
know, but you might look into it.)
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jp2
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response 98 of 184:
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Sep 7 22:48 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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jmsaul
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response 99 of 184:
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Sep 7 23:09 UTC 2002 |
Re #94: Restaurants actually need your credit card number, Scott. This
may surprise you, but you have to pay for your meal, and if you use
a credit card, they need the number to collect the money.
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jp2
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response 100 of 184:
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Sep 7 23:28 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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scott
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response 101 of 184:
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Sep 8 00:21 UTC 2002 |
Indeed, they do need the number. But it's quite possible (and not incredibly
rare) for servers to write the number for personal use. Since the issue being
debated is whether the treasurer can be trusted or whether some system (yet
unspecified) must be set in place to prevent the treasurer from having
personal access to that data, why not make a bigger deal about restaurants?
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scott
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response 102 of 184:
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Sep 8 00:28 UTC 2002 |
(Re 97: I'd like to think that he cares about Grex, but I'm finding it
difficult to believe. :/ )
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russ
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response 103 of 184:
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Sep 8 01:27 UTC 2002 |
Re #93: Some might argue that this has already happened.
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flem
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response 104 of 184:
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Sep 8 01:33 UTC 2002 |
I still think it's a pertinent point that no one has pointed out any place
on the internet where one can *legally* get anonymous shell priveleges with
outgoing net access, i.e. a platform to run vandal tools without fear of being
traced. I feel we have a real obligation to make a good faith effort to
identify people before giving them access to that.
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carson
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response 105 of 184:
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Sep 8 01:39 UTC 2002 |
(talk about completely missing the point!)
(Grex doesn't take credit cards directly anymore. as of a couple of days
ago, Grex's treasurer doesn't even have any credit card numbers on file.
so, despite Scott's obsession with prepared food [and who's to say that
Grex should be less important than a restaurant?], the issue isn't about
credit card numbers anymore. it's about what Grex does with the member
information it collects and why. I really can't for the life of me fathom
why Scott wants to avoid any sort of discussion on the topic, and,
frankly, I'm VERY disappointed by his attitude, *especially* since, as a
board member, it's his responsibility to allow the issue to be considered,
even if he thinks restaurants should set the standard.)
(personally, I trust Grex with any and all of the information I provide to
it, its officers and staff. even so, I don't object to an open discussion
of what happens to that information. I'm glad that Mark has been very
forthright about how he handles the information, and he's setting an
example that should be followed, in more ways than one.)
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carson
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response 106 of 184:
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Sep 8 01:41 UTC 2002 |
(resp:103 and resp:104 slipped. resp:105 was in response to re
sp:101, among
others.)
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scott
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response 107 of 184:
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Sep 8 02:44 UTC 2002 |
Re 105: Actually, I haven't been on board for at least a couple years.
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carson
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response 108 of 184:
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Sep 8 03:01 UTC 2002 |
(my bad and my apologies. I'll stop paying attention to you, then.) ;)
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