response 75 of 115:

Jun 30 11:25 UTC 1995

Yep, that's the hitch, sidhe thinks some people arn't getting a square
deal, hopefully he'll slip us some more info.

response 77 of 115:

Jul 1 00:46 UTC 1995

Me too.  I want to know whether I'm in or out.
But sidhe, I seriously do want to hear.  I expect that if you give such
a list, I'm going to wonder what kind of criteria you used to determine
groupings, & I'd expect some other people to push you for some kind of
coherent explanation.  But none the less I'm quite interested in what you
have to say on the subject, & I'm confident that Valerie's not the only
other one.

response 79 of 115:

Jul 1 07:05 UTC 1995

WOO...I was mentioned alot here wasn't I?  I feel speshul.
Anyhow...I've been here for about a month or 2 less than jwp.
In that time, I've seen a drastic change so it seems.  It usedta
be the worst I ever heard about users doing was how to 
spoof messages in party (you know, with the escape codes, or bs)
and people asking about that.  Looking at that now seems
very lame.  In my opinion, I've seen the majority of party
conversation turn from people coming in talking about diverse,
interesting, intellectual conversations OR friendly
lil chit-chats, to stuff like how evil this system is, or
something negative.   I have seen TONS of friendly, old time grexxers
(meaning they've been on grex for a while, nothing to do with age)
who used to brighten up people's days actually leave because
they're finding the "new breed of grexxers" to be twits.
I find this to be a shame.  It usedta be that the majority of teenagesr
who logged on here were here to meet new people and have fun on
the internet, it seems to me, the amount of teenagers who are just
out to screw around with stuff they shouldn't be doing is rising
here on grex.  I'm not tryin to set a stereotype, because I am too a 
teenager, and I'm probably the one with the worst name.
        Why am I saying all this?  Because I don't think it is because
staff is to blame for grex's "changing".  I think they are the same
staff they have always been, take that how ever you please, I feel
a good one.  They just want to have grex because they care about it.
I think the thing you people see is that all the bad things that
go wrong with staff, that you don't realize that things on the
internet are changing, people are becoming more "freakier",
more malicous, more out for fun at someone else's risk, stuff like that.
Stuff to be scared of...
        To bring back an old point, I don't blame selena for not giving
out real info because she might have something to be scared of, and I don't
really blame Grex staff for not understanding, because she could be a fraud
in all ways possible.  (PLEASE - NO ONE TAKE OFFENCE TO THAT COMMENT)
        I am going to seem like some sort of sell out here, but
I feel that grex staff did the right thing by shutting off my account...
It DID get my attention, and brought attention to the fact that it can
happen to anyone else out there.  I made the mistake, I pay.  I hope
they would have done the same to someone they knew closely who had the
same history.  And the fact remains that this is not some sort of sycofant
statement because I never claimed myself to be the hardcore hacker of
grex who will never go down, or something.  I do what I do, I don't do
it to get attention.  I truly regret some of the things I've done because
it puts me into a light of the people who are interested in evil doing
on this system, they come to me, consult me, ask me stuff, and they
think I'm a loser for telling them it's wrong.  I think I have brought
it on myself, but I'm allowed to regret it.
        As time goes goes on, there will be worse and worse cases of
twit evil doers, Grex Staff will have to adjust, and they will
probably seem like facists for doing so, but I feel they are just tryin
to save this place from a disaster, but hey...that's life.
(btw - the reason this might seem *LONG* ;> and some things
might be old/off topic is because I didn't get to this item til
just a few minutes ago....i wanted to put in everything I felt,or
think of right now at 3 am..woo i should be in bed...)

response 81 of 115:

Jul 1 13:28 UTC 1995

Thanks, avi.  I think the real problem hackers never even have personalities
on Grex, they just show up and try to break in.  More like ryan1 and avi, they
are users who are trying to push the rules and have to be dealt with more
crefully, since they are mostly Ok.  Anonymous hackers can be cut off without
any arguement.

response 83 of 115:

Jul 3 00:12 UTC 1995

member hackers can be cut off without any argument also, so take selena's
money and find out what she's made of.

response 85 of 115:

Jul 10 16:12 UTC 1995

I don't recall that, davel, could you be more specific?  I think I'm reading
you wrong.

response 87 of 115:

Jul 16 05:39 UTC 1995

(everything is cleared up now, big misunderstanding from me)

response 89 of 115:

Jul 18 02:13 UTC 1995

One of the problems with society in general these days, is this implicit
assumption of rights, rights, rights. IMO. You state:
  "...the have-nots' rights as citizens of the Grex community."

Rights as citizens of the Grex community??? Huh? Where do these come from
and where exactly are they spelled out? I think you may be assuming
something that doesn't exist.

response 91 of 115:

Jul 18 11:49 UTC 1995

On the one hand, I've heard other people say the same thing as sidhe,
including two good friends of mine whose opinions I respect a lot.
There's definitely a grain of truth in what sidhe and people are saying.
I'd very much like to see sidhe, and other people who see themselves as
have-nots, enter some constructive suggestions for how to improve things.

On the other hand, here's my original response to #88:

#<set rant mode = on>
Having invested FAR too much of my time fulfilling time-consuming
requests, both simple and not-simple, for zillions of people on the
system, lately often to the detriment of my own personal income, I'm not
sure I can say anything sensible to #88.  Seriously, I'd guesstimate I
spend 10-20 hours a week (*UNPAID* TIME) rebuilding people's accounts
that were eaten by the disk problem, creating party channels and noises,
answering help requests to staff, and averting potential crises (for
example, did you know I manually move big mailboxes out of the mail spool
directory, several times a week, to prevent it from filling up?  Unless
I've moved your personal mailbox, since the mail spool generally doesn't
fill up, you probably haven't had reason to notice that.)  There are days
when I don't make it in to work at all, even though I had intended to be
there, just because I'm stuck sitting in a sauna-like basement watching
Grex restore things from a backup tape for 5 hours, or I'm manually
rebuilding people's personal files that were eaten in a reboot.  If you're
saying I should spend even more time each week fulfilling time consuming
demands from hostile-rude people who want to demand me to write software
that goes against my personal beliefs, well: consider paying me.

I don't want to be paid to do things for Grex.  Grex can't afford it,
and I wouldn't feel right about accepting money from the system anyway.

#<set rant mode = off>

I apologize for ranting after sidhe specifically asked us not to.

response 93 of 115:

Jul 21 03:55 UTC 1995

        I've been doing a fair amount of thinking over the past few days
about this whole have/have not thing, and decided that there are
definately haves and have nots around here.  I also decided that I am
definately a have not, and I kind of miss the days when I was a have. 
        Grex definately has a class of "haves," and I'm sure if we think about
it those of us "have nots" will realize just how nice it would be to be a
"have."  Imagine how nice it would be to have a Grex that you can log into
an conference, and let other people worry about running it.  Imagine a Grex
that you can take a few days away from when you get busy with other things,
and not have to feel guilty about falling behind in discussions about things
that you will have to vote on at the next board meeting, or about the things
that will go undone with you gone.  It wouldn't be any of your concern,
because it would be somebody else's responsability to take care of.  Wouldn't
it be nice to be able to read your mail, and have your messages be from
friends, sending personal messages to you, rather than having the messages
like that be burried under lots of baff mail about the latest problems with
the city, or the landloards, or people trying to break into the system.  And,
wouldn't it be nice to be able to come into the conference and complain
endlessly, with no concern about whether what you were saying was reasonable,
or even whether what you were suggesting was possible?  The haves around here
get to do that, because they are only responsable to themselves.
        Yes, Grex definately haves this special privledged class of "haves."
Life would be so much easier if I could be one of them again.

response 95 of 115:

Jul 22 05:36 UTC 1995

I'm very glad I don't have dungeon access or root access.  Since I work only
three blocks from the Dungeon I might actually be tempted to so some of those
reboots, and then I'd never get any work done.

response 97 of 115:

Jul 29 20:40 UTC 1995

I reread #88 very carefully, and while it implies that there are some
problems, I could not find any "constructive suggestions in #88". The
problems are also stated too vaguely to know what needs to be addressed.
I, personally, enjoy an enormous freedom here, as a user. I can
do what I want with my directories and files, and even some limits
on filespace are extremrely generous. I don't have root, but there is
no need for me to have that. I think it would help this discussion if
sidhe would present a list of specific problems and specific suggestions
for their correction. Its all been too vague so far.

response 99 of 115:

Jul 30 20:46 UTC 1995

re #88, #96:

have you ever given thought to why some people "have" and some people "have
not?"

Let's take your "haves." Your basic "Have" is someone who has and can
produce, i.e., someone who has spent time educating herself so that she
can create what she wants/needs and, having the ability to create, can
share her knowledge and products with others. This isn't to say that
being a "have" means that one must share, but rather that they have something
to share. With absolute selfishness, you have a collection of hermits.
With absolute sharing, there is a lack of motivation for anyone to learn
to do anything save for the joy of it. Most individuals tend to find a
personal balance, sharing some things while valuing others for themselves.\
It is the sharing and valuing that enables the community.

Your basic "Have Not" is someone who hasn't learned to produce, and instead
must be content to wait for others to share what they have. It isn't that
the "Have Not" cannot produce, but rather that the "Have Not" _will not_
produce. The "Have Nots" are happy to pluck the fruits of others without
worrying about how those fruits came to be, and without any desire to
learn how to produce fruit of one's own.

I can happily announce that there are few absolute "Have Nots," and that
those who are have yet to take their first breath. Even in the womb, one
can be a "Have": you can kick mommy's tummy. you can feed at will. From
there, we learn to have: to crawl, to draw a glass of water, to get one's
favorite stuffed animal from the shelf.

Sadly, some people forget what they are capable of doing, and instead
choose to whine about what others aren't "letting" them do. The truth is,
no one is stopping them save for themselves.

Sidhe, let me quote Greg Cronau for you: grow up. Your repetitive whining
about your damned conference has crossed the point of self-parody. You
keep bringing up STeve's first response about it as if it's some sort of
sick fixation of yours. You've completely ignored any subsequent response
such as "it's OK if you learn to do it", "it's OK if you run it out of
your own directory", "I don't have the time to do it for you, but you can
do it yourself." Instead, you've gone on to take that first response from
STeve (who was speaking as someone who is VERY protective of Grex, I'd
wager, not as the demonic nay-sayer you keep portraying him as) and blown
it up into some sick and twisted version of "Staff Says." That's sick.

If you want to run a conference where you can exclude certain individuals
or scribble certain responses, learn to run it out of your directory, or
even your own computer. If you don't want to change your password every
year, write a script and stick it in some file that you run often to
change your password and change it back for you.

Empower yourself. Don't expect someone else to do it for you.