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Grex > Coop7 > #135: Changing some party settings |  |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 109 responses total. |
popcorn
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response 75 of 109:
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Jan 23 14:57 UTC 1996 |
Thinking back I'm about what you said TS: most changes I make aren't this
noticeable, but, I make changes *every day* that affect all 9611 users on
Grex.
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carson
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response 76 of 109:
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Jan 23 17:23 UTC 1996 |
re #73: Davel should have slipped in; his response is a little more
relevant than mine.
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mta
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response 77 of 109:
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Jan 23 21:50 UTC 1996 |
There's a logical error on response #68.
>any change that affects 9590 out of 9590 cannot be considered to have
been non-"tectonic.
This change effects only party/cafe users. That is far from 100% of the
userbase.
I agree that it might have been better, had anyone suggested it when Valerie
asked for comments or suggestions, to make this change only for people
creating new login id's. But I think that with a very few exception, the
ludest dissent has been from people who a) didn't bother to comment when they
were asked. b) contribute very little if at all to the greater (outside party)
GREX community, and c) approached this with a "how dare you mess with my toy"
attitude.
A very few people mentioned that they weren't 100% pleased with the change,
and then went on to politely explain what they would have preferred or made
constructive suggestions for how such changes might be handles in the future.
You know who you are, and I thank you.
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popcorn
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response 78 of 109:
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Jan 24 03:10 UTC 1996 |
(Ooops, remove the first "I'm" from response 75).
Re 77: Hm. I'm not comfortable saying that party users are second class
citizens of Grex. Yeah, I personally find the conversations in the
conferences a lot more fulfilling, but I'm not sure that that gives me a
right to condemn party.
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scg
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response 79 of 109:
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Jan 24 06:16 UTC 1996 |
Just like conferences, party varries a lot by who is in it. There are
scertain conferences I avoid because I don't like the topic, or the people
doing the discussion. There are also certain party channels, or certain
people, who I tend to avoid partying with, while there are other people who
I will go into party when I see them there, and who tend to have very
interesting discussions in party. A hint for those of you who tried it once
and got disgusted: it gets better late at night, and it also helps to go into
party at times when there are people there who you know from the conferences
hae interesting things to say. If people are interesting in the conferences,
they tend to be that way in party as well.
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davel
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response 80 of 109:
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Jan 24 16:22 UTC 1996 |
Re #78: Valerie, I don't understand Misti's comments to say *anyone*
was "second class citizens of Grex" or to "condemn party". But let me
comment from my own POV; Misti may speak for herself if she wants.
Personally I don't use party, but I don't think of party users as second-class
citizens or something. But there is certainly a way that conferencing
contributes to the wider community on Grex that party can't. Make a comment
in a conference, and it hangs around contributing to an ongoing discussion.
People may respond to it a year or two later, in some cases, at their first
opportunity to do so - soon after running newuser the first time. To pick
on Misti as a convenient example, when I first was getting on Grex she was
rarely around (for months, or maybe a year), but I got some idea of who she
was & what she was like from what she said & what people said to her. Very
helpful when I did come to have contact with her later. There are a *lot*
of people I could say the same about.
I'd also have to distinguish, among those who participate in conferences,
some degrees of contribution to what's happening here - and this is
not at all a matter of volume of words added to the pile. (It's also
clearly a judgment call. OK, so call me elitist.)
Party is, at present, one important element of Grex, & definitely contributes
to the community. There's nothing second-class about people who get on Grex
solely for it. But I'd have to agree with most of what I understood Misti
to be saying back there.
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mta
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response 81 of 109:
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Jan 24 22:07 UTC 1996 |
Yes, I agree, Dave. I didn't mean to imply that partiers are second class
citizens. I'm sorry that it came off that way. What I did mean is
essentially what Dave put so much more eloquently.
By its very ephemeral nature, party contributes only to itself and comments
made there contribute for only the immediate partiers. Conferences are
ongoing, openended dialogs. Comments made there contribute for as long as
the item stays around and anyone cares to read it.
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mta
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response 82 of 109:
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Jan 24 22:13 UTC 1996 |
re: #78 Besides, Valerie, you're such a nice person that you aren't
comfortable considering *anyone* a second class ciizen. <grin>
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chelsea
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response 83 of 109:
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Jan 25 01:07 UTC 1996 |
I wonder what party folks say about conference folks?
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chelsea
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response 84 of 109:
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Jan 25 01:08 UTC 1996 |
Maybe we could put a pointer to this discussion in the party
motd? Right next to the plea for their financial support? ;-)
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carson
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response 85 of 109:
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Jan 25 02:37 UTC 1996 |
I think it's been there. :)
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janc
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response 86 of 109:
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Jan 25 03:07 UTC 1996 |
Sure, comments in party contribute only to party. Comments in bbs contribute
only to bbs. Comments in party are ephemeral, so the dumb stuff goes away.
Comments in bbs aren't, so the dumb stuff lasts for a long time. I'm not
sure what any of this has to do with anything though.
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adbarr
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response 87 of 109:
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Jan 25 03:39 UTC 1996 |
Some dumb stuff seems to age well, until it is no longer dumb stuff. Just
to argue a little.
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sidhe
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response 88 of 109:
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Jan 26 02:16 UTC 1996 |
What you people need is a dose of perspective-
Partiers who party, and do not use bbs are making a conscious choice to
avoid bbs- they don't care for it, if not outright hate it. To require
them to come here to discuss matters is ridiculous. Go to them. Talk
to them. Let them tell you, in the environs they prefer. Don't
ask a fish to come out of the water to tell you why he doesn't
want his lake polluted.
It's simple- they installed the change without asking the people
who used party often whther or not they wanted it, Popcorn says she put a
notice in the party motd that changes were being considered in coop #135,
but since she got little response, she felt that she should just go and
make said changes without bothering to find out what people thought,
actively. She just went ahead, and the result? So many regular partiers
hated the changes that she had to make a special script that will change
the user's settings back to the way they used to be.
Now, if they had any consideration for users who don't use
picospan, which they don't, they would've made the new settings available
via a script to any interested people. That would have let those who
did not want their personal settings messed party with undisturbed
operation, while making the new settings available to whomever wanted
them.
Makes me wonder why it wasn't the approach taken, until I consider
the source..
If you wanted to make these the settings of new users, that would
have been fine. There was absolutely no reason to run things the way they
were run.
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scg
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response 89 of 109:
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Jan 26 05:08 UTC 1996 |
Uh, sidhe, how would somebody go about making decisions in party. I use party
a fair amount, and think it's a valuable resource for Grex, but there are some
big differences between it and the conferences, no matter how similar they
may be in other ways. Consider that stuff said in this conference sticks
around for months, while stuff said in party lasts only minutes before it
scrolls out of sight and out of mind. Having a discussion involving all party
users, in party, would be just about impossible, since they're not all on at
once (fortunately). The alternative that you seem to be suggesting is for
some staff or board type to sit in there 24 hours a day asking people. It's
nice in theory, but most of us have other things -- family or professional
responsabilities, or both, as well as other interests. I don't think anybody
here has time to spend 24 hours a day in party. I'd worry about anybody who
did.
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tsty
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response 90 of 109:
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Jan 26 06:00 UTC 1996 |
..."until i consider the source" is ad hominem, sidhe, not particularily
worthwhile of an argument stance, imo.
scg - tell us you've never heard of sampling?
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mta
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response 91 of 109:
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Jan 26 21:24 UTC 1996 |
TS, sampling is a valuable resource, but I doubt it would satisfy everyone.
You see, by definition not everyone would be asked if staff resorted to
sampling, and that would lead some poeple to feel left out because they didn't
get their say because they didn't happen to be on-line when the sampling was
done.
It's sad but true that there is literally no way to satisfy everyone, and
there will alwys be someone who will make their dissati=sfaction known loud
and clear.
Reason won't help.
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arthurp
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response 92 of 109:
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Jan 26 23:49 UTC 1996 |
Staff made what seemed at the time a reasonable effort to sample
peoples' opinions on this. Then they made a decision. It was said,
Now, if they had any consideration for users who don't use
picospan, which they don't, they would've made the new settings available
via a script to any interested people.
They do have consideration. It is not fair to say that they don't.
They are listening now, and have in fact gone out of their way to
appease a few very angry people. I don't see 9,000 people in here
complaining. They have said that they were sorry that this was
taken as such an attack and admitted to making a mistake. They
have apologized. They have done their best to make it right.
I think it is unfortunate that now that things are fixed some
people can't accept that apology with grace and move on.
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adbarr
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response 93 of 109:
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Jan 27 01:25 UTC 1996 |
I don't party, but I sure agree with arthurp here. The staff maintains the
system without which party is smoke, or did I miss something? Maybe we are
developing a "cyberrights" contingent? Let's move on. Popcorn, by the wqy,
from all I have ever seen is one of the people most respective of others
rights you are ever going to have the pleasure of meeting. <punctuation
ommited by mistake>
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carson
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response 94 of 109:
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Jan 27 02:19 UTC 1996 |
Since I use party, and quite a bit more regularly, not to mention quite
a deal longer than some of the people who are griping about how the
change was made, I decided to ask the people who were in party how they
felt about it. Granted, I've only done this once so far, but the answers
I received indicate that it's no big deal and quite easy to adapt to.
Ho-hum.
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tsty
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response 95 of 109:
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Jan 27 06:37 UTC 1996 |
... and since i was last here, there is *announced* a script to
run (which I did) to revert all the hanges. Much obliged.
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carson
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response 96 of 109:
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Jan 27 11:00 UTC 1996 |
yep, that too.
FTR, popcorn didn't _have_ to create that script, either. I'm
glad she did, though.
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tsty
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response 97 of 109:
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Jan 27 18:03 UTC 1996 |
credit where it's due - thankxx popcorn.
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arthurp
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response 98 of 109:
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Jan 27 22:31 UTC 1996 |
I have also asked in party, and recieved no complaints. I saw
one person constantly typeing one column over and mentioned
that if he was having trouble there was a script to run. He
said, "Heh, no thanks." So I guess a few people are real
upset and a lot of people don't care. So we will have to
continue to try to do our best and try to make it right if
someone thinks we have done otherwise.
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davel
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response 99 of 109:
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Jan 28 22:34 UTC 1996 |
Possibly this person was (understandably) nervous about running scripts at
other people's suggestions?
set drift=off
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