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Grex > Coop6 > #99: We gotsta get Usenet news back online, pronto! | |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 124 responses total. |
raven
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response 75 of 124:
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Feb 15 01:13 UTC 1995 |
Ofcourse people can download copyrighted pictures using Grex's
WWW access (type lynx at the next Ok: prompt). Does that mean that
our WWW access will taken away soon as well? When will this intellectual
prpoerty madness end? The music industry has already conceded that home
taping will take place regardless of regulations, so it is now in fact
*legal* to tape CDs for home use. In fact I think the blank tape
manufactuers now have to pay some sort of tax or fee to the music
industry to cover the losses from music piracy. I think the
publishing and software industries should come to the same conclusion
and allow scanning and bootlegging and charge sa fee to the makers of
hard drives and floppy disks IMNSHO.
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steve
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response 76 of 124:
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Feb 15 02:39 UTC 1995 |
The "intellestucal property madness" ends where are disks do. It is
one thing for a user to use Grex in a manner contrary to some laws, but
it is something quite different for Grex to be storing those newsgroups
locally. Until a court opinion says differently I don't think we should
change our thoughts on this.
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srw
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response 77 of 124:
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Feb 15 08:15 UTC 1995 |
I competely agree. If Grex is providing the data which violates the copyright
that is a much more active involvement in violation than if it merely
provides the means for you to find and copy a protected image on some
shady http or ftp site. It seems qualtitatively different to me.
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tsty
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response 78 of 124:
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Feb 15 10:46 UTC 1995 |
Since everyone seems to be able to get Usenet news somewhere
else (even if we started reading it here), and it's such a
bother and expense to get it back on Grex, why bother?
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carson
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response 79 of 124:
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Feb 15 13:16 UTC 1995 |
I think the reason for getting it back is to encourage people to
read Usenet *here* and to hopefully steer them towards the other
wonderful features, conversations, and people here. This is
what happened in my case.
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sidhe
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response 80 of 124:
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Feb 15 16:21 UTC 1995 |
Facinating discussion.. the violater of the copyright, though, is the
one who SCANNED the image, though, not someone who owns a copy.
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ajax
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response 81 of 124:
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Feb 15 16:26 UTC 1995 |
TS, not *everyone* here has other access to usenet. Though most people
can buy access for a modest price.
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steve
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response 82 of 124:
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Feb 15 16:43 UTC 1995 |
Also, accessing usenet from other systems is slower that it would
be on Grex, and, uses more Grex resources.
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kentn
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response 83 of 124:
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Feb 15 16:45 UTC 1995 |
re 80: so if I print up some copies of a best selling novel and you
sell them, I'm the only one to blame? The distributor also shares
some blame for allowing a violation to continue.
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sidhe
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response 84 of 124:
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Feb 15 19:07 UTC 1995 |
True, but if USENet access isn't a condition of donation, there is
no selling involved.
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ajax
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response 85 of 124:
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Feb 15 19:30 UTC 1995 |
STeve, access wouldn't always be faster on Grex, would it? Throughput
reading usenet news when I telnet to another system from Grex is sometimes
better than reading picospan here. Isn't it dependent on Grex's load
average and its internet bandwidth utilization? Remote usenet takes much
more of some resources, much less of others. If we pumped money and time
into bandwidth and cpu instead of local usenet, remote usenet could be
faster. Not that it matters, people don't want usenet here for speed. :)
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chi1taxi
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response 86 of 124:
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Feb 15 19:55 UTC 1995 |
I've just spoken w. a consultant at MSU-Gopher. They will be restricting
Usenet news access, starting in May!!!
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kentn
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response 87 of 124:
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Feb 16 00:16 UTC 1995 |
Re 84: DISTRIBUTION is the point, son.
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mwarner
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response 88 of 124:
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Feb 16 03:04 UTC 1995 |
(and DISTRIBUTION starts with D, and D rymes with T and T stands for
TROUBLE, right here in...) (sorry, carry on)
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steve
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response 89 of 124:
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Feb 16 04:11 UTC 1995 |
Well, in order for Grex to be back on usenet, we're going to have a
usenet system one way or the other, I think. That being the case, it
will be able to deal with I/O seperately from the Grex machine. That
being the case (theoretically), people coming into Grex from a dialin
to read news wouldn't use the link at all. People coming into Grex
over the link would have the data pass "through" the link once, to
them.
As it currently stands, people have to telnet elsewhere, which
insures increased usage of our most precious commodity, the link.
Thats what I mean by local news being less of a drain. It will also
be a heck of a lot faster!
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tsty
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response 90 of 124:
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Feb 17 10:31 UTC 1995 |
Yeh - people can "buy" access for a modest price (re: ajax). The
most modest "price" used to be $60/yr, right here in river city.
But, Grex does not "sell" access and has decided that there were
other priorities that needed funding first. Grex used to advertise
conferencing and Usenet and attracted lotssssss of people. Now,
with lots of people, Usenet (particularly +posting+), the secondary
draw, is postponed because we have so many people to deal with.
Logically, then, Usenet is worthless to Grex since withOUT Usenet,
Grex grew +anyway+. I'm not willing to bring up the spectre
of "broken promises," so don't start that drift.
My particular membership case was specifically funded by another
organization for the explicit reason that I would be able to
perform my official functions *through* the good offices of Grex,
since part of those functions require posting to the net.
News was "temporarily down" at that time and hasn't seen the light
of day since. Those good offices are closed and probably should
just stay that way.
I can easily envision other staff/borg sitautions wherein there
would be more "push" for "temporary" to follow it's real definition
but since those conditions aren't in evidence, just forget the net here.
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sidhe
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response 91 of 124:
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Feb 17 13:33 UTC 1995 |
So, your stand is that USENet isn't necessary, here?
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steve
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response 92 of 124:
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Feb 17 14:02 UTC 1995 |
Just because Grex grew without usenet, it hardly means that usenet
is worthless. It means that people have still found Grex worthwhile
enough to help out. Since we've grown without usenet, it stands to
reason that adding it will have either a neutral effect, or positive.
I don't think anyone will seriously say that it will detract from
anything, to have usenet here.
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ajax
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response 93 of 124:
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Feb 17 16:47 UTC 1995 |
Hm, well, I'll seriously say it may detract from something! (And not
just to prove you wrong :).
Grex has a limited number of connections, amount of CPU and amount of
unvirtual memory. As word spreads and users are "verified," local usenet
will likely keep the connections maxxed a lot more than they are now. If
a high ratio of people are here exclusively for usenet, since Grex has
these limited resources, it means fewer will be able to run picospan or
party, or even if connections aren't maxxed, that Grex will be slower.
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tsty
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response 94 of 124:
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Feb 17 22:02 UTC 1995 |
Yes, sidhe, I'm saying, now, that Usenet is not necessary here.
I *never* said that Usenet "is worthless," as close as I could
have come is to say that *for grex* Usenet is useless +now+, so
just forget it and we can all stop squabbling about that issue.
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steve
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response 95 of 124:
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Feb 18 00:28 UTC 1995 |
Well, I have to disagree. Usenet would be an extremely useful
thing for Grex to have. Its something of an embarrasemet that we
don't have it, in this day and age.
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rcurl
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response 96 of 124:
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Feb 18 08:39 UTC 1995 |
I find usenet extremely useful, though I only read two groups. I now
read it elsewhere, but as observed many Grex users may not have that
option. I'd think participants in the poetry cf (e.g.) might logically
want also to read a poetry newsgroup, and discuss it *here*.
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helmke
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response 97 of 124:
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Feb 19 20:00 UTC 1995 |
I personally would love to have Usenet here, just to read a few groups, not
spend hours at it.
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marcvh
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response 98 of 124:
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Feb 20 03:33 UTC 1995 |
I would have to strongly disagree with the assertion that Grex is all
that well known in the net.world at large. I also would expect Playboy
to concentrate primarily on BBSs which actually *sell* scanned versions
of their images (supposedly one particularly blatent case involved a BBS that
scanned and distributed their images illicitly tried to stop other BBSs
from distributing "pirated" copies of its GIFs, which of course were stolen
intellectual property in the first place.
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ajax
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response 99 of 124:
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Feb 20 04:12 UTC 1995 |
I came across this somewhat bizarre way of getting usenet news...it seems
a bit shortsighted, given bandwidth limits and usenet growth, but it's
interesting nonetheless!
"Newsfeed:
INN (available from ftp.bsdi.com:contrib/news)
PageSat (Usenet News by Satalite) +1 415 424 0384
approx: $565 equipment, $30 a month (1 year contract).
One person on the inet-access mailing list commented:
:: The chief reason there are holes is that PageSat is delivered via
:: satellite. When it rains hard, we lose the signal, and they don't
:: retransmit any data. The other big problem is that they only have about
:: 100MB/day of bandwidth (synchronous 9600bps == 1200cps). Usenet is
:: currently around 130MB/day, so they have an obvious lag problem.
:: Even with these problems, PageSat is worth it because it eases about
:: 100 MB/day of bandwidth off of my lowly 56k circuit.
Note that a 56Kbps link is ~590MB/day of bandwidth. Of course you
aren't going to get that in practice and during peak usage things can
get pretty bad, so offloading 100/MB of real work could be a big win."
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