|
Grex > Coop6 > #10: Should Grex be running a POP server? | |
|
| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 131 responses total. |
rcurl
|
|
response 75 of 131:
| 
Oct 13 17:04 UTC 1994 |
If we do it, let's not limit it to members. Its just another mail accessory,
and mail has always been open to all.
|
jfk
|
|
response 76 of 131:
|
Oct 13 22:08 UTC 1994 |
Since M-net reaps gests that don't log in for 30 or more days, it encourages
POP users to log in every once in a while.
|
srw
|
|
response 77 of 131:
|
Oct 14 05:44 UTC 1994 |
I agree with 74 75 and 76 more than I do with my own 73. I was just trying
to think of reasons why it would be reasonable not to have a POP server.
|
rcurl
|
|
response 78 of 131:
|
Oct 14 06:03 UTC 1994 |
POP makes the keys sticky?
|
bt
|
|
response 79 of 131:
|
Oct 14 13:31 UTC 1994 |
Is there any possible way that a 'POP session' could be any more CPU
intensive than your average 'Pine session'?
|
rcurl
|
|
response 80 of 131:
|
Oct 14 13:36 UTC 1994 |
The only thing I can think of is that the POP session downloads all
of every message you want to read, but in pine you can look at just
the first page, and delete the rest. I have the impression, though,
that some people's problem with POP is that it is like sending a servant
to pick up the mail, rather than going yourself, and being sociable
in the lobby.
|
steve
|
|
response 81 of 131:
|
Oct 14 21:14 UTC 1994 |
CPU intensity isn't the important factor here, but network bandwidth
is. My concerns here really revolve around the extra amount of I/O
we're going to put over the link with a POP server.
|
cicero
|
|
response 82 of 131:
|
Oct 15 01:18 UTC 1994 |
But steve, is it really more? If people are reading mail online over the
link that is tying up bandwitdth too isn't it? Or is it the concentration of
sending it all at once that is the problem. Could we allow a POP servier that
functions only during certain lower usage hours?
|
steve
|
|
response 83 of 131:
|
Oct 15 03:26 UTC 1994 |
Yes, it will absolutely be more. Looking for a free non-restricted POP
server on the net is like looking for a free MUD server: rare. If we
do this, we're going to find a whole lot of people who set up an account here,
and then read mail remotely. We've already given people free email access,
which I certainly don't mind, but now the situation of say, someone
who is using the services of an internet provider but doesn't want to
pay for disk usage can use their internet provider for net acess, and
avoid having to pay for mail access--'cause good old Grex will be there,
offering POP service to the world. It certainly won't be fast--glaicial
in fact--but it will be there. And it will be used.
Part of the problem these days is that with everyone on the net,
it is technically possible to have each service come from a completely
different server. Just where that server is, depends on a number
of things, like accessability and cost. We're accessable & free. Thats
going to be a tempting combination for a lot of people.
|
rcurl
|
|
response 84 of 131:
|
Oct 15 06:22 UTC 1994 |
Isn't that one of our purposes?
|
remmers
|
|
response 85 of 131:
|
Oct 15 10:45 UTC 1994 |
Yes, it is.
People who want free mail already have it with our current setup, and
have for some time.
Also, it was pointed out above that M-Net -- which is also accessible
on the net and free -- has been running a POP server for a while now
without problems.
|
steve
|
|
response 86 of 131:
|
Oct 15 15:23 UTC 1994 |
It is Grex's mission to provide communications, yes, but not for the
whole Internet. M-Net's experience doesn't apply to us, because M-Net
and Grex have really started diverging in terms of usage, and what others
on the net think of our two systems. Like it or not, Grex is seen as an
interesting watering-hole on the net, much more so thatn M-Net. Just
why this is so, I can't say. But I've talked now at length with users
from England, Columbia, Singapore, Croatia, and Peru. These last four
countries have had lots of people come in here, mostly because of our
free mail policies, and a general feeling that this is an open system.
The person from Peru found out about us from a friend in Yugoslovia,
who in turn got it from England. So we're known as an "interesting" spot
on the net.
I know I keep sounding like a broken record on this.
|
robh
|
|
response 87 of 131:
|
Oct 15 16:41 UTC 1994 |
So the question becomes, do we want everyone on the Internet
to think of us as a place to get free POP mail service?
I still say, let 'em go bother M-Net and leave us alone.
|
jep
|
|
response 88 of 131:
|
Oct 15 17:45 UTC 1994 |
Grex is welcome to send people to M-Net for POP. Shucks, M-Net has
sent people to Grex for Usenet News before. That's okay.
I don't see the purpose of the opposition to POP, myself. It's a
little service.
|
jfk
|
|
response 89 of 131:
|
Oct 16 01:29 UTC 1994 |
I also disagree with Steve on how much our users bases are diverging...
but that is another issue.
|
remmers
|
|
response 90 of 131:
|
Oct 16 02:34 UTC 1994 |
All of this discussion is moot unless there's a volunteer to install
the server. Steve indicated in #0 that although POP server software
is easily available, it would need to be modified to be compatible
with our shadow password system, so the installation might not be
trivial.
|
tsty
|
|
response 91 of 131:
|
Oct 16 04:59 UTC 1994 |
In the last two weeks I've been paged by newusers because, either
my help-flag was set, or, because some newuser herd of me from
some other newuser.
'sOK -not a problem - however .... none of these newusers has
heardof the M-b0x, none. Therefore, I turn them on to arbornet.org
and let them figure it out.
Intersting ow Grex attracts first .......
o
|
popcorn
|
|
response 92 of 131:
|
Oct 16 15:45 UTC 1994 |
Right, you don't run into the people who found m-net first, because they're
on m-net and not on grex. On grex you run into the people who found grex
first. Makes sense to me!
|
srw
|
|
response 93 of 131:
|
Oct 16 16:18 UTC 1994 |
Re 90, Marcus has the password system experience and possibly the interest
(if I remember rightly an earlier post of his). I don't think this
discussion is moot.
|
mdw
|
|
response 94 of 131:
|
Dec 7 10:31 UTC 1994 |
I've and installed pop on other systems. Technically, it's trivial.
The real problem is the "do we want this on grex" question - the same
issue I mentioned when I talked about distributed item (I only saw this
once & didn't have time to read through it all then..)
|
bartlett
|
|
response 95 of 131:
|
Dec 8 21:03 UTC 1994 |
I will come out and say it. Yes, I *do* want pop on Grex. Some of my
reasons are completely selfish. Some are less so. Here they are.
Selfish reasoning. I am blind (for those who didn't know) and any
opportunity to get an operation from on to off-line is a boon to me. The
interfaces are almost always easier for me to use, and I can use my time
more effectively. Reflect that I operate under a significant amount of
time inflation as it is. My time is increasingly precious, and I need to
keep up on my mail, both for my own reasons, and to keep Grex happy. Pop
is a God-send to me.
Now for the more abstract thinking. What is Grex's mission? Is it
primarily to serve as a conferencing center? I'm afraid I disagree with
those who hold this. It's too narrow. And the idea of making thingother
services less convenient to guide our growth in this way seems completely
ludicrous to me. The only consideration that would make me hesitate is
technical. There is disagreement on the effects of a pop server, so I
suggest we try it as was the emerging consensus two months ago.
And in Response to Robh's #87 and earlier response, I have gone to m-net,
and if I have to will support M-net
Chris Bartlett,
A member in good standing for nearly two years now.
|
steve
|
|
response 96 of 131:
|
Dec 9 00:37 UTC 1994 |
The problem I see with it, is simply that others (many others, I think)
will start using this. With our link as overloaded as it is, I think this
will only add to the problem.
So, while I agree with you that conferencing is too narrow, we're
in this interesting situation of not having nearly enough bandwidth
for all the things that we'd like to do.
|
remmers
|
|
response 97 of 131:
|
Dec 9 11:32 UTC 1994 |
However, from the discussion in coop on this a few weeks ago, I think
the sentiment was to try it and see what the impact actually turns out
to be. It has been pointed out that M-Net -- which has similarly narrow
internet bandwidth to us and has been experiencing rapid growth since
the opened up incoming telnet -- has been running a POP server for some
time and the impact has been negligible.
|
jep
|
|
response 98 of 131:
|
Dec 10 20:18 UTC 1994 |
Chris, you're welcome to have your mail forwarded to M-Net and to use
POP there. M-Net's policy is to reap guest accounts inactive for 30 days;
all you'd have to do is log in once per month to maintain your account.
There is, as far as I know, no requirement to support the system in order
to use POP from M-Net.
|
mwarner
|
|
response 99 of 131:
|
Dec 10 21:10 UTC 1994 |
If more organizations routinely offered these (relatively) easy to provide
services, there would be less of an issue of "what happens when we get
swamped". Grex is the type of organization that is bound to be slightly
forward is this type of thing. A pop server seems a reasonable step. As
special as the community environment is on grex, I'd still say that
standard E-mail and conferencing systems are $.10/12. It is the
flexibility of an open unix system and the many skills and efforts of the
staff that make it a most remarkable little system.
|