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Grex > Agora56 > #96: Cheney shoots fellow hunter in South Texas. | |
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| 25 new of 218 responses total. |
jep
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response 75 of 218:
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Feb 15 21:53 UTC 2006 |
I don't expect people to make up stuff and then treat it like it's
facts. Is that how you usually deal with a lack of information? It
isn't what I do.
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tod
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response 76 of 218:
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Feb 15 22:30 UTC 2006 |
People gossip and speculate when there are gaps in stories. Me? Yea, I tend
to think the old geezer was boozing it up when he went hunting cuz that's what
people in Texas do for recreation: Drink and kill
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gull
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response 77 of 218:
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Feb 16 00:30 UTC 2006 |
Re resp:52: I predict that whether the guy lives or dies, Cheney will
not see any consequences.
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keesan
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response 78 of 218:
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Feb 16 00:33 UTC 2006 |
Has anyone calculated how close someone would need to be to receive 200
pellets from the gun? Can you shoot 200 of them 30 yards in a straight line?
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marcvh
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response 79 of 218:
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Feb 16 00:41 UTC 2006 |
In case anybody hasn't been watching Faux News, Cheney has admitted to
drinking "a beer" at lunch. It's plausible that it wasn't a factor in
the shooting (but it's certainly not a given.)
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richard
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response 80 of 218:
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Feb 16 00:42 UTC 2006 |
re #79 oh sure, Cheney only had ONE beer. Anyone really believe that?
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johnnie
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response 81 of 218:
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Feb 16 00:48 UTC 2006 |
"A beer at lunch" is the standard reply when a policeman asks a drunk,
"Have you had anything to drink this evening, sir?"
Also, MSNBC has un-removed the beer reference in their article, without
so far saying why it was removed in the first place.
This, too: The woman put forth as a witness to the shooting, Katharine
Armstrong, seems not to have actually seen much of anything. In an
interview with the AP, she says she first knew something had happened
when she saw medical personnel rushing to the scene (she figured Cheney
had suffered a heart attack).
And this tidbit (from the Fox interview): After nearly killing his
friend, Cheney decided not to bother going to the hospital, since there
"wasn't room in the ambulance" (like there were no other cars around?).
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richard
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response 82 of 218:
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Feb 16 01:10 UTC 2006 |
re #81 according to news reports, instead of going to the hospital,
Cheney went home and poured himself a good stiff cocktail.
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marcvh
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response 83 of 218:
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Feb 16 01:15 UTC 2006 |
Maybe his Secret Service agents saw something. We should depose them.
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charcat
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response 84 of 218:
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Feb 16 01:43 UTC 2006 |
my memories from my hunting days are that birdshot is usually #6 shot, a
little smaller than a standard bb and at 30 yards it is close to being
spent, might go a little damage possibly penetrate under the skin but
into the chest, through shirts and orange hunting jacket? I don't think
so. 50 yards would be just like a sprinkle of small hail stones. The
pattern would depend on the choke on the gun.
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nharmon
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response 85 of 218:
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Feb 16 03:25 UTC 2006 |
The ballastics of a shotgun blast depend on a lot of factors. Off the
top of my head, I can think of barrel length, muzzle choke, guage, shell
length, shell manufacturer, firearm manufacturer, whether the firearm is
pump-action; semi-automatic; or break-away are all factors that would
affect this.
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bru
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response 86 of 218:
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Feb 16 06:19 UTC 2006 |
there are 225 pellets in an oz. of #6 shot in a standard 1 oz load for small
game birds. The pellets are much smaller than a BB, almost half the size.
pattern sepends a lot on barrel length, choke, and the type of shotgun shell
used.
The point is, Cheney was involved in a hunting accident. He fired his shotgun
adn injured his friend.
Had he been drinking? I don't know and even if he had not been, came out and
said he had not been, there would still be people saying he must have been.
Going to the hospital would NOT have been an option in the eyes of the secret
service. Not in the ambulance, not in his own car. to have done so would
have endangered the life of his friend because 500 reporteres woul ahve shown
up and tried to find out what had happened, distracting the doctors and
hospital operations.
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jep
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response 87 of 218:
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Feb 16 13:24 UTC 2006 |
I would very likely have gone to a nearby house and had a drink,
myself, if I'd just shot someone accidentally.
Yes, I find it credible that the vice president had a beer at lunch and
then went hunting several hours later. Why wouldn't I? Other than for
the purpose of trying to invent a better story, I see no reason for
anyone not to believe that.
But then, I have no interest in the story beyond the uninteresting
occurrance of a shooting accident. It doesn't feel like a lost
opportunity to me, if nothing else happened. Others who have more of a
stake in the event want more of a story. And are willing to go to
great lengths to get one; lengths to which, I prefer to believe, I
would not go even if I was trying to make a political point as they
are. I want to hang on to my self-respect and credibility, which are
more valuable to me than the warmth I would get from making up a story
and pretending it is true. Different people have different values, as
we can see in this item.
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janc
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response 88 of 218:
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Feb 16 14:06 UTC 2006 |
I seem to remember back during the Monica Lewinsky scandal right wingers
on Grex were eagerly inventing facts they'd like to see reported. Some
one claimed that Clinton probably sold Monica drugs too. I wasn't much
impressed by such speculation then, and I'm not now. I see no reason
not to believe that we weren't told a reasonable facimile of the truth
in this case. I mean, if they were going to lie about it, then they'd
claim someone else was holding the gun, wouldn't they? I think the
facts as they have now been reported might have been shaded a bit -
maybe he had two beers and maybe it was more like 20 yards - but are
essentially accurate. A bit of macho swaggering and a bit of
inattention to the job at hand are quite enough to lead to an accident
like this without having to assume drunkeness. I wouldn't condemn
Cheney on the basis of this incident. On the basis of how he performs
his job on the other hand....
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nharmon
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response 89 of 218:
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Feb 16 14:16 UTC 2006 |
Good call Jan
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johnnie
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response 90 of 218:
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Feb 16 14:36 UTC 2006 |
>Going to the hospital would NOT have been an option in the eyes of the
>secret service....because 500 reporteres woul ahve shown up
That's a good point.
It'd be a better point if Cheney had wanted to go the hospital, but he
didn't. Too bad he didn't think of that; "Secret Service said I
couldn't go" is a much more sympathetic story than "I couldn't be
bothered to go".
It'd be a better point, too, if they had informed the press in a timely
manner so that there was a danger of reporters showing up. Regardless,
it would have been a small matter for the SecServ to control access in a
small county hospital.
>I would very likely have gone to a nearby house and had a drink,
>myself, if I'd just shot someone accidentally.
Ignoring the question of whether a man with a history of alcoholism and
on a long list of heart medication should be drinking at all, and
ignoring the fact that the VP and his entourage lied about his drinking
that day to the public and the police, then, yeah--me, too.
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happyboy
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response 91 of 218:
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Feb 16 17:14 UTC 2006 |
again...why the delay?
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tod
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response 92 of 218:
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Feb 16 17:20 UTC 2006 |
re #78
The choke was wide open according to the report. They also said the distance
was 30 yards. Neither jive with a 28 gauge birdshot. 10 yards makes more
sense...and for over 200 pellets to hit you on a wide open choke then we're
talking maybe 4 yards. Cheney had to be drunk if he was spinning around to
shoot behind the way they were headed directly at another hunter.
re #88
Sex, guns, and violence. Its a twisted world when gun violence gets less
attention than consentual sex.
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johnnie
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response 93 of 218:
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Feb 16 17:37 UTC 2006 |
FoxNews Journamalism ("Q" is Brit Hume):
THE VICE PRESIDENT: ...bird flushed and went to my right, off to the
west. I turned and shot at the bird, and at that second, saw Harry
standing there. Didn't know he was there --
Q You had pulled the trigger and you saw him?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I saw him fall, basically. It had happened so
fast...I fired, and there's Harry falling. And it was, I'd have to say,
one of the worst days of my life, at that moment...He was struck in the
right side of his face, his neck and his upper torso on the right side
of his body.
Q And you -- and I take it, you missed the bird.
---------
(Full text of the interview: http://tinyurl.com/a2spu )
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happyboy
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response 94 of 218:
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Feb 16 17:48 UTC 2006 |
cheney on his shooting victim:
"good friend"
"friend"
"aquaintance"
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tod
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response 95 of 218:
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Feb 16 17:50 UTC 2006 |
See, not only do they not find WMD but they can't even hit a bird.
These guys are running our country.
We gave you $100 billion for Iraqi reconstruction. 25% of it is MISSING.
What happened? Why are all our necessary services being chopped off at the
elbows and knees to pay for these mistakes?
Do we get a response from Cheney on these issues after his hiding for 3 1/2
years? No. We hear about his Barney Fife weekend after 3 1/2 years.
THANKS!!!
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rcurl
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response 96 of 218:
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Feb 16 18:30 UTC 2006 |
It strikes me that if one is holding a gun in the usual right-handed
manner, there is poorer peripheral vision to the right than to the left
when tracking a moving target, especially if one keeps both eyes open. I'm
not a hunter so I don't know if this really the case. How is the shooter's
visual perception different when a right-handed shooter is tracking a
target to the right or left?
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tod
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response 97 of 218:
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Feb 16 19:31 UTC 2006 |
Cheney: heart meds, beer, big cokebottle glasses....
I dunno, man.
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johnnie
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response 98 of 218:
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Feb 16 20:55 UTC 2006 |
I wonder what went through ol' Harry's mind at the crucial moment.
There can't be anything scarier than having Dick Cheney suddenly turn on
you with a shotgun.
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tod
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response 99 of 218:
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Feb 16 21:27 UTC 2006 |
re #98
Scarier would be that after you're laying there wounded, Mary Cheney comes
out in coveralls playing dueling banjos and you hear Rumsfeld saying "You got
a perty mouth, boy"
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