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| Author |
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| 25 new of 187 responses total. |
senna
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response 75 of 187:
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Apr 2 03:58 UTC 2002 |
I fail to see what that has to do with it. Return to your hole or risk
further humiliation.
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mcnally
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response 76 of 187:
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Apr 2 04:03 UTC 2002 |
I think it's a pretty fair question..
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mdw
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response 77 of 187:
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Apr 2 04:17 UTC 2002 |
What makes you think that emotional trauma is anywhere near as bad as
the emotional trauma suffered by women who do choose to have babies?
Life is full of unpleasant things we wish we hadn't done; my
understanding is for many women, the line of "pro-life" protesters
around some abortion clinics is much worse than the actual procedure and
all its consequences.
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jmsaul
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response 78 of 187:
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Apr 2 04:21 UTC 2002 |
Not really. The question was whether pro-life fanatics care about the
woman, not whether abortion clinics do. They're independent questions.
That said, though, it varies. I'm sure some are basically mills, but
others make a real effort to provide follow-up care, counseling on birth
control, and referrals to psychological counseling if needed. I know a
couple people who have been through it and who have received a lot of
supportive care. Probably better than many mothers who carry their
pregnancies to term.
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jmsaul
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response 79 of 187:
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Apr 2 04:23 UTC 2002 |
#77 slipped. The emotional response to abortion varies from person to person,
just as the emotional response to pregnancy -- which, despite the way our
culture pretends things work, is stressful and not necessarily joyous. For
the women I know who had abortions, it was a difficult decision, but one
they're glad they made because pregnancy would have been far worse.
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russ
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response 80 of 187:
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Apr 2 13:52 UTC 2002 |
Re #74: They don't, because there is no need. "Post-abortion
syndrome" is a myth pushed by people who don't like abortion.
It's pure propaganda.
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rcurl
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response 81 of 187:
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Apr 2 15:07 UTC 2002 |
There is a discussion of this at
http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_post.htm. The "bottom line" is "A
major longitudinal study by the American Psychological Associated was
unable to detect any evidence of PAS."
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jazz
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response 82 of 187:
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Apr 2 16:06 UTC 2002 |
At the same time, don't tell me that many women don't go through some
trauma after choosing to have an abortion; I'm rabidly pro-choice, but I've
seen enough to know neither side is so clean cut.
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brighn
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response 83 of 187:
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Apr 2 18:11 UTC 2002 |
I've known three women who've confided in me about their abortions. None of
them just went on with their lives trauma-free. The least touched by it felt
sad for a little while, but realized it was for the best. One couple named
the fetus and had celebrated its first conception day. the most touched had
guilt dreams about it for years afterward, and it was still on her mind the
last I heard from her, but then, she was messed up in general (that was
Selena).
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jmsaul
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response 84 of 187:
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Apr 2 18:25 UTC 2002 |
Re #80: I don't know what "post-abortion syndrome" is, but I do know that
a number of women who have had abortions experience some degree of
psychological trauma as a result. Granted, the effects of carrying
a pregnancy to term are far more dramatic, as numerous studies
have shown (including the one Reagan suppressed when Koop was
Surgeon General), but some women do experience negative effects.
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rcurl
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response 85 of 187:
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Apr 2 18:44 UTC 2002 |
I don't understand what the point is of making a point about PAS any
more than PBS, or PMS, or what have you. Agreed, they all represent
intensely emotional events in women's lives. None are in any way
*indictments* of the procedures: they are just normal consequences of
the procedures. None are arguments against the procedures.
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brighn
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response 86 of 187:
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Apr 2 19:22 UTC 2002 |
I thought the original question was what, if any, post-abortion counselling
servies abortion clinics provide. Even if there's no such thing as PAS, it's
undeniably that women who have had abortions may go through a period fo grief
or guilt that might be eased through professional guidance. No, that's not
an indictment of abortion at all.
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rcurl
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response 87 of 187:
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Apr 2 20:08 UTC 2002 |
No more than its an indictment of pregnancy (unless, of course, it leads
to infanticide - which apparently has happened. Pregnancy can have awful
consequences, so should be banned......? 8^}).
Women's clinics, in particular Planned Parenthood, provide all sorts of
services for women. I would expect that they either provide counseling or
refer women for counseling, for PAS, PBS, PMS, and many other problems for
which counseling might be useful. I don't think any are considered
judgmental.
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gull
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response 88 of 187:
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Apr 2 20:20 UTC 2002 |
Hospitals don't provide much post-pregnancy councelling, either, I'd
guess. In today's HMO-driven world don't they have to release women
one day after the birth or something like that?
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bhelliom
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response 89 of 187:
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Apr 2 20:33 UTC 2002 |
But it's not the abortion itself that is the traumatic part, but the
feelings associated with making the decision. Those that talk about
post-abortion trauma don't make that distinction. Sure, there are
bound to be bad experiences, but probably no more than with any other
medical procedure. It's simply made more emotional and harder to take
because of the type of procedure, the implications of what's happening.
For those that mention "trauma" . . . how much of this is due to the
power of suggestion from the constant barrage from picture-wielding
hardliners giving dire predictions of your fate if you go through with
it? And it's stressful enough, right, that the person is in this
predicament? Add those two together, plus whatever hard things they
were going through before the pregnancy, and top that all off with a
nice healthy does of anesthesia. Presto. Again, this isn't to say
tramatic incidents don't happen, but how much of it is from outside
pressures versus the procedure itself?
RE#74 Once the procedure is done women are normally encouraged to see
their PCP or GYN for a follow-up. And you're making too much of a
blanket statement. Clearly the ability to provide follow-up care will
be determined by the level of resources, the access to a safe
environment, etc., for those who do wish to provide all-around care.
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russ
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response 90 of 187:
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Apr 2 22:15 UTC 2002 |
I suppose I should explain #68(a) more clearly for klg's benefit:
Right-to-Lifers care about the fetus, but they aren't the ones who
would have to carry and bear it, and then either take on the burden
of raising it or the pain of separating from it. The bodily changes,
health effects and lost wages, education and opportunities are
suffered by someone else, not them. They don't carry the burdens.
They don't even respect religious freedom. They demand adherence to
their interpretation, and people who read Genesis 1 as meaning that
the "living soul" comes into being at birth (first breath) shouldn't
be allowed to follow it. They stand behind the shield of religious
freedom to promote a cause which denies it to others. Can you think
of a greater hypocrisy? (Okay, the Politically Correct claim free
speech to spread their views, but deny it to others - but that's on
the left, not the right. Perhaps we should call Right-to-Life a part
of the "religious correctness" movement, to highlight the kinship.)
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jazz
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response 91 of 187:
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Apr 3 01:02 UTC 2002 |
I don't know. Given the changes I've seen in some people during
pregancy, I'd imagine it's pretty reasonable to say that terminating the
pregnancy might do something.
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russ
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response 92 of 187:
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Apr 3 02:30 UTC 2002 |
Re #82: The evidence suggests that the trauma is due to having
a pregnancy which forces such unpleasant decisions, not the
particular decision. That, and people with a predisposition to
depression are likely to become depressed as a result.
Re #87: I never thought of Andrea Yates as an argument for choice,
but she's a pretty good one now that you mention it. The risk of
such severe consequences from pregnancy makes the "tough it out"
rhetoric of the anti-abortion lobby look pretty stupid.
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brighn
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response 93 of 187:
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Apr 3 04:03 UTC 2002 |
Re #89> Calling it "POST" abortion syndrome is certainly misleading, since
much of the trauma is dealt with during the decision making process.
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orinoco
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response 94 of 187:
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Apr 3 18:52 UTC 2002 |
Let's be careful with the word "trauma" here. I imagine that there are a few
women who are really and truly traumatized by their abortion experiences.
I know there are a lot more who are sad, or ambivalent, or regretful.
Ambivalence, last I checked, doesn't leave any emotional scars.
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brighn
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response 95 of 187:
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Apr 3 19:19 UTC 2002 |
trauma. a disordered psychic or behavioral state resulting from mental or
emotional stress or physical injury (M-W)
I use "trauma" for a wider range of emotional upset than you do, ori.
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bru
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response 96 of 187:
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Apr 4 00:44 UTC 2002 |
I am glad to know abortions are not traumatic, at least for the mother to be.
Of course, by that reasoning, losing a spouse ias non traumatic, or a parent,
or a sibling, or a freind, or...what the hell. Make up your own loss.
Seems pretty taumatic to me.
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keesan
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response 97 of 187:
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Apr 4 00:48 UTC 2002 |
I would think a birth would be much more traumatic than an abortion. A fetus
does not afford quite the same companionship as a spouse or sibling.
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orinoco
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response 98 of 187:
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Apr 4 01:14 UTC 2002 |
Logically, Bruce, you're right -- an abortion is the death of a relative, and
it should be just as traumatic as the death of an already-born child. Now,
I don't think they're a walk in the park for anyone, but everything I've seen
and everyone I've talked to lead me to believe that abortions are less
stressful or upsetting than another sort of death in the family. You can
think it should be otherwise (hell, I might agree with you there -- I'm all
in favor of reproductive rights, but I don't think abortions should be taken
lightly), but that seems to be how it is.
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anderyn
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response 99 of 187:
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Apr 4 01:20 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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