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25 new of 123 responses total.
jp2
response 75 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 1 23:57 UTC 2002

No, but I do wish to add, that if keesan is ignoring me, she's locked out the
only person on this system who knows their ass from a hole in the ground :)
jp2
response 76 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 2 00:00 UTC 2002

Okay, wow.  I have been busy all day and not paying attention to this.  I did
not realize the entire item is about me.  Not that I disapprove. 

Here's some facts for you to work with:

        1)  I am just as much of an asshole in real life.
        2)  I would still be smarter than most of you in real life.
        3)  I have a sinus infection.
        4)  Maryland is going to pummel Indiana.  

Thank you.
polygon
response 77 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 2 00:04 UTC 2002

Re 73.  "He is, by definition, a turd."

It sounds like you have a very definite and precise definition for that
word.

Admittedly, I rarely use it myself.

But the last time someone defined in detail for me the kind of person who he
would call a "turd," the list of "turd" qualities included a kind of whiny
passive-aggressiveness that does not seem to apply to Jamie.
jp2
response 78 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 2 00:11 UTC 2002

Maybe they do.
mdw
response 79 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 2 00:16 UTC 2002

Brown, sticky, and smelly?
mcnally
response 80 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 2 00:23 UTC 2002

  Excreted as a semi-solid waste product by a higher organism?
senna
response 81 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 2 00:37 UTC 2002

There are few people that I consider to be legitimately indefensible.  I can't
think of any right now, and the includes people with whom I've had well-known
disagreements with.  If I just can't get along with someone, I generally
choose to ignore them and avoid contact.  It doesn't do any good, but such
hostility *can* grow on people, and often does.  I know enough not to presume
that my judgements of people are the limit of what they are, though, and I
think it's rather small of people to assume that they can write any person
off as "something."  

There's always room for surprise.  Take, for example, bru, a person whose
not-so-well-developed political opinions are held in low esteem by a majority
of the board.  It's easy for us to project our impressions of him and other
people we know through limited contact onto what we believe the entire person
to be like.  Doing so, however, would leave us rather perplexed if we are to
believe anderyn's reports of his behavior and attitude concerning his
daughter's pregnancy.  Apparently, there *is* more than meets the eye.  

People who find Jamie upsetting or irritating:  It's really, really not worth
your negative energy to think about it.  Come on, he rarely even posts
anything that is either not pagable or more than one line in length.  There
are much more worthwhile things to worry about.

Retraction #1: This post is not meant as a criticism, direct or otherwise,
of Julie, for whom I'm fairly certain there is a splendid excuse.  ;)
jp2
response 82 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 2 03:32 UTC 2002























































































































































                        <pout>
jazz
response 83 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 2 03:57 UTC 2002

        Nobody - even the aformentioned shitfaced drunkards when they're at
their worst - ever truly acts out of character.  They are who they are, and
the way they express themselves may be a limited set from all of their
possible self, but it's still a set of their self.  I don't think anyone is
capable, for instance, of being a completely different person in two
different media, unless they're suffering from MPD.
jp2
response 84 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 2 14:33 UTC 2002

This response has been erased.

slynne
response 85 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 2 16:05 UTC 2002

re#83 Nevertheless, it is very possible for a person to engage in very 
different types of behavior depending on the context of their 
situation. For instance, I know that I tend to act very differently 
when I am at church compared to when I am at a bar. I know I am a very 
different person at work where I have a lot of motivation to be polite 
than at home where I dont. While it is true that no one ever acts "out 
of character" it can seem that way to a person who only knows someone 
else in the context of one situation. People have different sides to 
their personality. That is normal and isnt even anything close to MPD. 
jazz
response 86 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 2 16:13 UTC 2002

        I'll bet you're not a rampaging idiot in a bar, or in church, however.
Most people behave differently in those two situations.  However, if you're
an alcoholic in a bar, then you're an alcoholic in church, you may just not
be drinking at the moment.  If you're a rampaging idiot in a bar, then you're
a rampaging idiot in church, who isn't rampaging because of self-control.
jp2
response 87 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 2 16:19 UTC 2002

This response has been erased.

janc
response 88 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 2 17:19 UTC 2002

Re #84: Always happy to return the favor.
scott
response 89 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 2 17:20 UTC 2002

It'll end with Jamie claiming superiority?
bhelliom
response 90 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 2 18:28 UTC 2002

In general I try to give people the benefit of the doubt when I'm 
meeting them for the first time, unless the impression is so strong 
that I'm just inclined to dislike them.  I think most people would 
rather steer clear of those that annoy them, that's for sure.  And you 
brace yourself when the meeting is inevitable.

Other than Grex, I don't know too many people online that I have never 
met in person, so I can't really comment on that.  Certainly having an 
idea of what someone is like in person, what they are really like, may 
alter your response to the things they say online.  You may take what 
they say with an extra grain of salt, being able to tell what kind of 
mood they're in.  You may be tempted to expose them when they spew a 
lot of BS, because you know that most of the things they say tend to be 
lies or poorly constructed rationalizations.

Re# 72.  I certainly agree with the "no needy people need apply" idea.  
I can handle someone needing support, but not those whose goal in life 
is to siphon all of your energy.  I am all about quality versus 
quantity when it comes to friends. Certainly it took me a while to 
determine that the two are not one in the same.
morwen
response 91 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 2 23:12 UTC 2002

I hope everyone will pardon me for subverting the subject of this item.
Maybe I will start a new item for griping.
other
response 92 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 3 03:29 UTC 2002

In person, I'm not nearly the mild-mannered moderate I am on Grex.
polygon
response 93 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 3 07:12 UTC 2002

I'm also one who strongly believes in the legitimacy of a person's online
persona as a true reflection of at least part of someone's personality.

The first time I had the experience of meeting a great many people I knew
only from online interaction, back in 1983-84, I found that many of them
looked very different than I had imagined.  Perhaps not surprisingly, many
of them were shorter, fatter, shyer, younger, and worse dressed and groomed,
in person than I had imagined them to be.  (Probably they were thinking the
same of me.)  However, the physical impression did not cancel out the kind
of knowing that arose from their online writings and interactions.

I guess I can't argue with the notion that people are "never" out of
character, whether they are in religious services or at a drinking
establishment, but I think that the range of circumstances and the
individual's response can be wide indeed.

Under the right circumstances, almost anyone might behave in a heroically
admirable way.  Under another set of circumstances, almost anyone might
behave in an awful and detestable way.  Admittedly these situations don't
come up very often, but behavior under extreme conditions is often taken as
the most reliable guide to character.

Of course, even under everyday circumstances, ordinary folks like us do or
say things which turn out to be disastrous for ourselves or others.  As a
Bob Franke song puts it: "We've all been known, each in his own way, to be
jerks."

Bearing all this in mind, I tend to take the generous view.  And even when
someone is being provocative, it usually pays to be gracious.
jaklumen
response 94 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 3 08:37 UTC 2002

hmmmm.. well, Julie and I met a number of Grexers in person a couple 
of years ago.  so resp:63 is a bit interesting.. having met jazz in 
person, there was a bit more revealed IRL and coming back on-line, 
because the things I remember was camera shyness (or just didn't like 
having his picture taken, take your pick) and toasting someone (I 
can't remember his name) with a "Death to Divx"! with a cold mug of 
brewski.

Don't worry jazz, the one group picture with you in it will still 
probably never make it to a webpage.. check if you need to, but I'll 
digitally erase you out if we decide to scan it up (well, again, feel 
free to check the validity of that if need be).

Other Grexers struck me a bit different, too, maybe partially because 
some of us feel more comfy typing than speaking.

But I think all of this philosophical discussion is fascinating.  Yes, 
I suppose it's true that it's easier to see some facets of a person's 
personality online than off, and it's easier to see other facets vice 
versa, that is, in person; although said facets are all parts of the 
whole.
jazz
response 95 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 3 15:02 UTC 2002

        You're right on the second count, I just don't like being photographed
without my permission;  I've noticed that it's not uncommon, and several of
my friends have also expressed the same preference.  I'm more vocal about it
than they, however.
jmsaul
response 96 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 3 18:19 UTC 2002

Re #93:  I doubt that anyone who's met you thinks you're shorter than they
         expected.  Honest.
polygon
response 97 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 3 20:29 UTC 2002

Re 96.  I tried to work in an exception for that, but it sounded like
immodest quibbling, so I left it simple.
janc
response 98 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 3 21:19 UTC 2002

Note to all readers:  Larry is taller than you expect.

Most likely Jamie's behavior in other situations is different than it 
is on-line.  But I don't care.  Not having been appointed to sit on 
God's right come judgement day, I don't really have to be able to judge 
the overall worthiness of any human life.  All I need to do is decide 
how much I want associate with them, how much attention to pay to their 
opinions, and how much to trust them.

My only interactions with Jamie are on-line.  I will probably never 
meet him.  Why should I *care* what he is like in person?  More than, 
say, some random person living in Nigeria who I'll never meet at all?
Whatever relationship exists between me and Jamie is entirely on-line,
and we are each perfectly justified in judging the other solely by our 
on-line behavior.
mdw
response 99 of 123: Mark Unseen   Apr 4 01:41 UTC 2002

Larry is 9 feet tall.
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