response 76 of 106:

May 8 23:51 UTC 2002

It's mutual mental masturbation, I discovered that long ago. But it's fun to
fondle someone else's medulla oblongatta. ;}

response 78 of 106:

May 9 02:44 UTC 2002

md has put his finger on one aspect of this argument. For example, I said
that US citizens living and earning income abroad cannot be *touched* by
the US tax system, I never said they were not *subject* to the US tax
system (the US says they are so they are). Apparently, however, there are
some juridictions where the US can get their hands on citizens living
abroad earning more than $76,000 but who decline to pay taxes. Would you
please tell me from which countries that is possible, and under what
conditions?

response 80 of 106:

May 9 02:48 UTC 2002

Rane, please explain to me how, if the US can prosecute someone living abroad
for tax evasion (which you allow for the possibility of in the latter half
of #78), it is the case that that person cannot be *touched* by the US tax
system. Either you're playing a bizarre semantic game (which I'm betting),
or you're just plain obtuse.
 
I would say that "arrested for tax evasion" is an instance of "touched by the
US tax system."

response 82 of 106:

May 9 14:42 UTC 2002

Re #80: I have agreed, following this discussion, that there may be
jurisdictions where persons violating American tax law can be (have been)
expatriated. One such has been named as Great Britain.  I know of no
specific cases, but I'll accept that. However if they are not expatriated,
then American law does not "touch" them, even if an American court 
renders a judgement against them (they would say, "so what?" and go
about their business). 

All I have asserted in this discussion that there are countries in which
Americans can live and earn incomes and will never have to pay US income
tax, even if the US thinks they should, because the US can not legally
force them to or punish them for not doing so. Does anyone deny this? I
accept that there are some countries from which US citizens can be
expatriated. Some of you have implied that this could be done for any tax
avoidance, but we now know that it is only for avoidance for incomes
exceeding $ 76,000 - a pretty good income and greater than most Americans
living abroad could make in general employment. Hence American tax law
will not "touch" the great majority Americans living in a foreign country.
(It is why I was not approached by the US for payment of income tax to the
US when I was living and working in England and in The Netherlands.) Will
you now all agree with that, and then let's end this thread? 

response 84 of 106:

May 9 15:20 UTC 2002

Does anyone understand that statement and question, apropos the  discussion
of tax law?

response 86 of 106:

May 9 15:38 UTC 2002

#82> All I have asserted in this discussion that there are countries in which
Americans can live and earn incomes and will never have to pay US income tax.
 
#28>  Re #25: if you move to a foreign country and earn money there, you will
 pay income tax there and the United States cannot touch you.
 
#82 does not accurately describe the extent of what you've asserted here,
Rane.

response 92 of 106:

May 9 20:20 UTC 2002

#87> Those two quotes are NOT logically consistent. The logical content of
the quote from #82: There are some countries such that American citizens who
live there and earn money there will not be obliged to pay US income tax. The
logical content of the quote from #28: For all countries, American citizens
who live there and earn money there will not be obliged to pay US income tax.

An entailment of the quote from #28> There exists no country such that
American citizens who live there and earn money there will still be obliged
to pay US income tax.
 
That is asserted in #28 but not in #82. So stating that the quote from #82
is all you have asserted is untrue.

The entailment is what Jamie has been arguing, and has provided data against.
Sine you've removed it and accepted the possibility that the entailment is
in fact untrue, you've hardly proven your point and won the argument. Most
people I know would call that LOSING the argument.

response 94 of 106:

May 10 06:59 UTC 2002

Noriega?

response 96 of 106:

May 10 11:48 UTC 2002

I found this: 

"However, the tax code allows American citizens who live abroad to 
exclude up to $70,000 of their foreign-source wages from income. For 
most US citizens working overseas, that means they will not owe any US 
income tax."

That supports Rane's contention that most US citizens working abroad 
won't have to pay taxes.  The article also did say, however, that 
Americans working abroad are legally required to file US tax returns.  
This is a problem for many overseas workers, because they assume if 
they don't owe any taxes there's no point in filing.  Many of them have 
gone decades without filing and are afraid to come back to the US.  
Some of them have nightmares about being arrested at the airport and 
placed in handcuffs.  But the truth is, even if you don't file returns 
and the government finds out, they can only make you go back 8 years.  
Sounds like a pretty good deal.

response 98 of 106:

May 10 13:11 UTC 2002

Michael, did you find that information at the URL I gave in #71, where
I found it?