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| Author |
Message |
| 24 new of 98 responses total. |
other
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response 75 of 98:
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May 21 16:02 UTC 2002 |
Tell us more about the Islamic Law class. What kind of perspective does
it provide with which to put into focus the differences between the
middle and ends of the spectrum of Islamic faith?
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jmsaul
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response 76 of 98:
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May 21 16:21 UTC 2002 |
That's a pretty broad question, so I'm not sure what you're looking for.
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remmers
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response 77 of 98:
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May 21 16:40 UTC 2002 |
(Probably should go in a new item, too...)
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lynne
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response 78 of 98:
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May 21 16:49 UTC 2002 |
Wow. This is a pretty cool item. I'm sorry I didn't wade through agora to
join in a month ago when it was still early.
Grad school experiences are different from field to field, school to school,
person to person. I think the only real common denominator is the absolute
requirement for sufficient motivation to make it through--I've seen way too
many people go on to grad school because it was expected or it was the next
thing, then quit because it's not something you can really do a half-assed
job on. One of my dad's favorite quotes on research is "Ya gotta do it for
love, because you sure as hell can't do it for the money!" Applies pretty
well to grad school too.
That said, people who go off and live a non-academic life for a few years
have a much lower drop-out rate. Kudos to Mark for getting out when it
wasn't working for him, and thinking seriously about it before going back.
I wish you best of luck and plenty of (maintain-able) motivation.
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jmsaul
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response 79 of 98:
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May 21 16:54 UTC 2002 |
Re #77: Good point.
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eskarina
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response 80 of 98:
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May 21 21:47 UTC 2002 |
re 78: yeah, but doesn't taking a year or two off affect how the grad school
looks at you?
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jmsaul
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response 81 of 98:
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May 21 21:48 UTC 2002 |
Not necessarily. I took six years off, and had no trouble getting into
Michigan Law School. They seem to like seeing actual work experience.
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orinoco
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response 82 of 98:
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May 21 22:26 UTC 2002 |
Why do you suppose it is that people who take some time away from school
before grad school are less likely to drop out? Is it just that they're a
self-selected group -- the ones who were going to drop out just didn't come
back in the first place? Or do you think time away from academia would make
anyone more likely to succeed at grad school?
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scott
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response 83 of 98:
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May 21 23:11 UTC 2002 |
Two words: "work ethic". Even as an undergrad I was unnerved by those
returning students who made the rest of us look like complete slackers.
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jp2
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response 84 of 98:
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May 22 00:29 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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jmsaul
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response 85 of 98:
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May 22 01:23 UTC 2002 |
Re #82: I think it's a bit of what you're suggesting, and a bit of what
scott's suggesting.
Re #84: I don't think I would have phrased it that way, though. I would
have said that it increases your chances of success, and doesn't
hurt your chance of getting in.
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jp2
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response 86 of 98:
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May 22 02:04 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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jmsaul
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response 87 of 98:
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May 22 03:18 UTC 2002 |
I'm happy to say the same things I said on that topic on M-Net here too, but
let's not derail this item for it.
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aruba
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response 88 of 98:
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May 22 16:40 UTC 2002 |
Thanks Sylvia and Carolyn for your support and thoughts. Sylvia - yes I am
in a much better place than I was 9 years ago.
I found that when I reapplied to grad schools in 1990, after taking a year
off, that Princeton no longer wanted me, and all my offers of support at
other schools were reduced. I've heard a lot of academics advise people not
to take time off, because you forget things and it's a lot of work to get
back into the swing of school.
I always thought that was terrible advice, espoused by people who had never
been out of school (or had bad experiences out of school if they had). For
me, knowing that I could earn a living in the real world made succeeding in
grad school less of a life-or-death proposition. It's probably why I quit
school instead of killing myself. I wish now that I'd stayed out longer
that first time.
I absolutely agree with Scott that once you've been out of school for a
while, you approach it with a different attitude when you go back. And part
of that is that since you've chosen to be in school, it only makes sense to
work hard and get the most out of it that you can.
I suspect that Joe's experience of having no trouble getting into law
school says first, that he is an impresive guy, and second, that
professional schools and PhD programs may have different attitudes about
taking time away from school. I think academics tend to be suspicious of
it, and professional schools recognize that it adds to the diversity of
their field.
That's just supposition, though. It would be interesting to hear from
people who have been involved with the admissions process to see if I'm
right.
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bhelliom
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response 89 of 98:
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May 22 17:01 UTC 2002 |
I think it really depends. My senior thesis advisor had finished his
PhD in history the year before, and even he'd advised me to take time
off before grad school. One thing's for certain, burn-out factor is
probably reduced if you take time away from school, even if it is to go
into the work force for a while.
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jmsaul
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response 90 of 98:
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May 22 21:21 UTC 2002 |
Re #88: Law schools may be different. I certainly wasn't the only person
there who had spent time in the outside world before applying.
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aruba
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response 91 of 98:
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May 22 21:33 UTC 2002 |
And some business schools practically insist that people spend some time in
the real world before enrolling.
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jmsaul
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response 92 of 98:
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May 23 02:46 UTC 2002 |
Pretty much, yeah.
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eskarina
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response 93 of 98:
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May 23 13:52 UTC 2002 |
I dunno... I think a master's degree in math would be interesting as well as
a good way to see if I want to go on in math. But here lies the problem.
I have a divided path in front of me. One leads to being a secondary math
teacher. One is growing over a bit, and has to do with my music minor and
original intention of being a music teacher (after all, the reason I came to
MSU was that I had a horn scholarship here), and the other is going on to
attempt a PhD in math. The third idea is mostly a new toy, becuase I'm
starting to question my age old assumption that I'm too stupid to do it.
So I was thinking maybe the way I'd resolve stuff is apply to some master's
degree programs and see what they say. thing is, a couple of ed people have
told me that getting your master's fresh out of undergrad is a way to make
yourself not get hired as a secondary teacher, because you are in a higher
pay bracket because of your degree, but have no experience, so they don't want
to hire you like that.
But grad schools don't like you taking time off. grr.
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aruba
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response 94 of 98:
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May 23 14:11 UTC 2002 |
I guess you really shouldn't take my word for that. It would be better to
talk with an admissions person.
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lynne
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response 95 of 98:
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May 23 15:29 UTC 2002 |
Definitely varies with field. In chemistry it's fine to take off a few
years...as long as you're doing something chemistry related. Or my friend
pretty much took off 10 years in the middle of undergrad, then went back
to school and majored in chemistry. I took off a year, but it was just
a year off from the American academimc system--went to Germany and worked
in a university lab there. When I came back and went to grad school, more
than one professor mentioned the year in Germany as a specific reason why
they wanted to recruit me for their groups--they thought it showed
determination or strength of character or something. If they only knew how
close I came to going home, and how often... <wry grin>
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jmsaul
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response 96 of 98:
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May 23 15:47 UTC 2002 |
If they knew that, they would have thought the determination and strength of
character thing was even stronger. You don't show those traits by doing
something that's easy.
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lynne
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response 97 of 98:
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May 23 19:30 UTC 2002 |
Hmmm. I still feel that the amount of whining I did rather detracts from
the accomplishment. :)
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bhelliom
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response 98 of 98:
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May 28 14:58 UTC 2002 |
Hey, sometimes a little "whining" keeps you going longer than you would
have otherwise. :)
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