response 74 of 254:

Oct 13 05:13 UTC 1998

I wonder if Kami held any more peep murdering parties than the one I attended?

response 76 of 254:

Oct 14 02:21 UTC 1998

is that legal?

response 78 of 254:

Oct 14 15:25 UTC 1998

        I didn't think of that!  I never thought of that!

        Of course it would require some modifications to the aluminum foil
ritual ...

response 80 of 254:

Oct 19 01:59 UTC 1998

damn... back to those boring soaps

response 82 of 254:

Oct 21 21:44 UTC 1998

   what?  someone else has conducted a peep ceremony?  this might mean 
the start of a religious war.  :)

response 84 of 254:

Oct 21 22:59 UTC 1998

I don't think I've told Julie yet that it took me a long time to learn the
small amount of information I know.  I don't think I distinctly said that I
snuck out of the closet, then back in, peep out, peep in-- etc., etc. 
Acceptance, denial.  Frustration, acceptance.

I suppose it was a painful transition of about 5-7 years.

response 86 of 254:

Nov 3 06:05 UTC 1998

you know, i agree with lumen that there is too much pressure from the 
glb community to come out publicly.  whenever the time is right, if at 
all. i for one like to keep things private.  takes a lot of getting used 
to. especially for people like bookworm (hi.) & me who are really trying 
to make sense of things. anyway, i just had to jump in here because it's 
so interesting to me: you guys are LDS? My first boyfriend (to whom i 
was "engaged") was LDS and has recently returned to the church. 
incidentally, his gay experiences in his youth happened at church camp 
and with mormon friends.  anyway, i recently did a lot of research about 
the church, which was really enlightening. I read many books, some about 
blacks, gays, and women in the church. very interesting stuff. (i 
recommend "Peculiar People.." if you haven't read it.) i now have a lot 
of respect for the marginalized folks who stay with the church to "seek 
out the truth".  It's unfortunate that it often seems to be a sacrifice. 
(Scripturally there is so little evidence against gays in all of 
christianity - you would think they'd be out there picketing liars or 
greedy folk).  But, on the other hand, I reconsidered that sort of life 
with Peter (the ex) & thought it would be really constrictive. you don't 
want to regret that sort of thing.  & in the LDS church especially, you 
are really committing to a lifestyle as much as a religion. (btw, i have 
an ex-gf who was excommunicated from the southern baptist church! the 
way some people define christianity puzzles me...) 

response 88 of 254:

Nov 4 07:03 UTC 1998

re #87: yep.

re #86: The climate is changing, really.  You see, the issue with blacks
receiving the Priesthood was not a doctrinal thing, but a social one.  I was
told the First Presidency had to wait until the church members got over their
racism.  (Btw, the LDS Church is proliferating in Africa today.)

It could be the same with gays.  Gays should be able to enjoy a monogamous
relationship even if it is same-sex.  Heh.  That's the obstacle-- most of them
want to follow the principles of the church, but getting married to an
opposite sex partner is very difficult.

A friend of mine told me her mother is only sexually attracted to women, but
she is still married to her husband and doing fine.  (So it would seem
marriage is more than sexual attraction.)

Others have left the church with very bitter attitudes.  I don't know what
to say or what to do..it seems like I get caught it the middle sometimes..

Julie found an enlightening article which I thought was nice-- perhaps she'll
share it later.

The current stance still does not support same-sex sexual activity or marriage
although acceptance of these individuals has been encouraged..by stance, I
mean stance of the LDS church.

this is a touchy subject for me..so be nice..when I first came here, I was
afraid folks would jump all over me because of my religion.

response 90 of 254:

Nov 8 00:42 UTC 1998

hmm.. it does surprise me that acceptance of glb individuals has been 
encouraged by the church (since it's viewed by many as the antithesis 
of the "right kind of life"). but, on the other hand, i am optimistic 
that most religions will become more tolerant, since that would be more 
in keeping with a christian attitude. (if people here jumped all over 
you for your religion i would be surprised! how intolerant!)

marriage is definitely about more than sexual attraction. that should 
be low on the list. or,i mean, sexual attraction should more often be 
the result of love.  People all too often see it the other way around. 
so, good for you! (btw, how long have you known each other? it seems 
like that movie "in & out" just came out... not very long ago. but i am 
getting old & time flies! my ex just called yesterday to tell me about 
this girl he's been dating for one month (!) and what a good wife 
she'll be. jeez! & i thought i was something special!) best of luck you 
guys. you are not "living a lie" if you have a good relationship. 
that's so silly. the gay community seems to insist that you can't 
really be bisexual & any straight relationship you have is somehow... 
deceitful. bigotry... what can i say?

bookworm, i empathize w/ you. i think we're taught as we grow up that 
gays are the other folk (no one ever tells you that you might be that 
way) & so we ignore same-sex feelings or don't recognize them for what 
they are. i had a crush on a brother & sister in high school, convinced 
myself that i was merely admiring the fact that they shared good looks. 
but i remember getting her to loan me her necklace & pretending it 
meant something. definitely a crush, but i didn't recognize it as one.

last but not least, i should introduce myself (assuming i'll be back). 
i'm "new" to grex in that i haven't been here for four years. way back 
when. only recognize a few names. like brighn. (he's been here 
forever!) hi brighn!

response 92 of 254:

Nov 9 07:57 UTC 1998

One year, Kari.  We can't wait to be married :)

response 94 of 254:

Nov 10 01:11 UTC 1998

Just you wait, Bob-- you'll get a pic soon-- at least, hopefully, we'll send
one to llan.

(Julie sez her father has a scanner, but I dunno when we'll have time to go
to Yakima and e-mail it)

response 96 of 254:

Nov 10 01:50 UTC 1998

I almost forgot.  There's more!

Besides having to endure taunting in middle school-- guys called me fag and
queer, and even though it's a locker room attitude-- it still hurt me deeply--
they made fun of the fact that I wiggled my butt when I walked.

Are you all familiar with pictures that have the faces cut out so you can put
your face in?  I looked at one at school and wondered about just the box or
whatever, and instead of a hole for a face, there'd be a hole for a cock, and
no picture would be necessary.  Then it would be easy to just go suck that
cock that was sticking out.  I'd never really thought of it being pleasurable
before, but it seemed appealing.  I swear that I had not heard of glory holing
at that particular time.

(It was as fun as I thought it would be-- about 12-13 years later.)

It wasn't too long ago that I came out to my mom-- I think it must have been
early in the year, about around March or April.  She thought I was going back
on everything I'd worked so hard for, but I assured her I still wanted to be
active in my religion.  After she managed to let in sink in, she said I
worried too much.

My mom is pretty tolerant.  She has a gay cousin that she just adores and a
straight cousin who she thinks is a creep.  So hey, it's all good.  Real life
isn't as bad as folks might think and not all gays and lesbians are
maladjusted (but the problems never go away).

Funny how you remember things when you come out of denial.  Once again, thanks
*so* much, guys.  As I said, I was scared when I came here, but I've managed
to get the courage to go to the student organization at Central.  I may not
be able to declare it to total strangers, but..

I'm free, and that is such a wonderful feeling.