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Grex > Coop12 > #138: Nominations for the Board of Directors | |
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| Author |
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| 25 new of 176 responses total. |
remmers
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response 71 of 176:
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Nov 16 13:01 UTC 2002 |
November 15 having passed, the nominations are now closed. Nominees
have until the start of voting on December 1 to accept (if they haven't
yet) and become members (if they aren't currently).
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slynne
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response 72 of 176:
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Nov 18 19:26 UTC 2002 |
resp:70 is a perfect example.
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mynxcat
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response 73 of 176:
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Nov 18 19:31 UTC 2002 |
Of what?
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cross
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response 74 of 176:
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Nov 18 19:39 UTC 2002 |
Of how guests are sometimes treated on grex. However, the example is
flawed, since jmsaul was, I'm pretty sure, being sarcastic in order to
illustrate slynne's point.
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mynxcat
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response 75 of 176:
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Nov 18 19:47 UTC 2002 |
Yeah, I think he was being sarcastic. jmsaul has raised that issue himself
actually, in the item about the non-local board members.
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jp2
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response 76 of 176:
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Nov 18 20:05 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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mynxcat
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response 77 of 176:
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Nov 18 20:28 UTC 2002 |
Those I have missed. But I will agree with Joe on this one. However, the way
that newcomers are treated here is way better than how they are treated on
mnet. Still, it could be better
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slynne
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response 78 of 176:
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Nov 18 21:23 UTC 2002 |
What, jmsaul sarcastic!? NOoooo I cant believe it!
Seriously though, It isnt really newusers who arent always treated
well, it is anyone who has been around for a bit and still chooses to
contribute in a non-financial way. I really do understand that the
bills need to get paid. I guess I just object to the social pressure
that gets applied to people who are not members. Sometimes "guests" get
treated as if they arent contributing to the system when, imho, anyone
who posts interesting comments in the conferences is contributing
something much more valuable than money to the system.
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cross
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response 79 of 176:
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Nov 18 22:49 UTC 2002 |
I agree. Unfortunately, I think it goes beyond that: anyone who challenges
the way grex does things tends to get the cold shoulder. That's a shame.
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jmsaul
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response 80 of 176:
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Nov 18 23:08 UTC 2002 |
Of course I was being sarcastic. To the best of my knowledge, Mary is a
member.
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mary
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response 81 of 176:
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Nov 18 23:30 UTC 2002 |
I challenge the system all the time, people disagree with me, but I don't
take it as an example of subset discrimination, although I could play the
victim as well as anyone. So what's the deal? I have successfully
lowered my standards. I don't expect to be universally loved and
respected. What a relief.
On Grex you make your case and rally support. Sometimes you win but most
of the time, to be real, the idea sucks dead rats, as John likes to say.
You admit it, eventually, and start thinking of better ideas. And even if
you persist in seeing your concept as brilliant, you just have to think of
it as being before its time. The whole grudge thing is a waste of energy.
Unless you're into grudges.
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jp2
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response 82 of 176:
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Nov 19 00:08 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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mynxcat
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response 83 of 176:
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Nov 19 00:51 UTC 2002 |
Umm jamie, using you as an example isn't really the most accurate example.
Don't get em wrong, i adore you, but you've done everything to be
antagonsitic. And you know it :)
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jp2
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response 84 of 176:
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Nov 19 02:33 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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mynxcat
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response 85 of 176:
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Nov 19 02:38 UTC 2002 |
See - perfect example - I rest my case
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other
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response 86 of 176:
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Nov 19 04:55 UTC 2002 |
Jamie is a perfect example... of the counterargument. If we were so
antagonistic toward outsiders, we would have booted him off the system
long ago. Repeatedly.
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richard
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response 87 of 176:
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Nov 19 05:42 UTC 2002 |
I have many times in the past brought up the issue that grex calls money
its users contribute 'donations', yet it requires said donations as a
pre-requisite for membership. If a donation is by definition voluntary,
than requiring it changes that definition. Once money is required, it
becomes NOT a donation, but dues. Anyone who provides validation should
be allowed to become a voting member. Validation as in proof of identity
so as to meet legal requirements. People who donate to Grex should be
doing so out of support of Grex, not to gain voting rights. I do not
think membership need be predicated on a monetary transaction, no matter
how small the amount. I can see establishing two classes of members,
donating members and non-donating members, and saying that only donating
members may run/serve on the board. But Grex should not place monetary
requirements on its basic membership. Simple validation, and the
establishment of a renewal period, so that every two or three years,
members be required to re-validate with updated identification, would seem
all that should really be necessary
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mdw
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response 88 of 176:
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Nov 19 06:22 UTC 2002 |
The problem is when you have set (a) that pays, and set (b) that votes,
there is a tendency for sets (a) and (b) to become disjoint, and for set
(b) to make decisions that do not reflect financial reality. Now there
are plenty of organizations where most of the money really does come
from set (a) that does not vote, but there are very few where set (b)
isn't required to make at least a token financial "donation" before they
can vote on set (a)'s money. I would conclude from this that there is
sufficient symbolic value to being at least a token member of set (a)
that we probably don't want to depart from this tried and tested path.
Regarding use of the word "donation" - you will find that most PBS
stations, museums, etc., use very similar language. The "donation" is
the reason for the transaction; the "gift" of a membership and voting
rights is a perk. From the standpoint of grex, the "donation" is the
necessary part; without donations grex will die. The "vote" is merely a
desirable consequence, it's a way to ensure that grex will be more
directly accountable to the people who gave money to enable grex to
function. So you see, voting without donating breaks the model - you've
gotten the "perk" without earning it.
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richard
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response 89 of 176:
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Nov 19 07:00 UTC 2002 |
I understand all that, and you'll note that I said in previous post that board
members could still come from the subset of members that have made donations.
And as most monetary decisions are made by the board, not by member wide vote,
that ought to satisfy that issue. You can't be on the board or run for the
board unless you have donated money. But if Grex is truly an all inclusive
community, then it should not require a financial transaction for base
membership in it. Symbolically saying that we want YOU, above all else. Your
money would be nice, but it is you that is important and you we want as part
of us.
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mdw
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response 90 of 176:
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Nov 19 07:16 UTC 2002 |
So you're creating a new class of members, "people who can vote but
can't vote for board members"? I don't see how creating more divisions
makes grex more inclusive. You seem to be arguing that this new class
of member would never vote on financial matters, so it doesn't matter --
but I doubt most of the present voting/donating membership would see
things that way.
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jep
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response 91 of 176:
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Nov 19 13:12 UTC 2002 |
Grex does need the members. It also needs the money in order to
continue to operate.
Grex asks for a very small amount of money from it's members; $5 per
month. You can get by for $15/year. I don't think I want to have
anyone on the Board who's not willing to commit $15/year to Grex's
finances.
I've been a non-contributor, and am currently a member. I've never
felt like it made any difference in how I was perceived by other
Grexers.
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cross
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response 92 of 176:
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Nov 19 14:41 UTC 2002 |
I thought the charges were $60/year? That's not a lot, but 4 times
more than you indicate. Also, grex needs to cut costs if it wants to
continue to operate (actually, it seems like it's doing just fine
financially right now).
Regarding the user-abuse thing, the person who wrote #86 tends to be
rather, err, inflamatory. I actually mind lowering my standards.
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mynxcat
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response 93 of 176:
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Nov 19 15:17 UTC 2002 |
User who wrote 86 has always been inflammatory. I've come to accept it. There
are all sorts of users on this system, thats true. And while most users are
very nice, there are a few that give the impression that non-paying users
don't have the same rights to air their opinions as the paying ones. And to
tell you the truth, the image that is portrayed to the rest of us is - If
you're not paying, shut up about how we run this place.
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jep
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response 94 of 176:
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Nov 19 15:37 UTC 2002 |
A person becomes eligible for voting and running for the Board if
they've paid for 3 consecutive months of membership. That would cost
$15, and is the smallest amount you can give to Grex while obtaining
those rights.
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jp2
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response 95 of 176:
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Nov 19 16:37 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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