response 72 of 218:

Feb 15 20:47 UTC 2006

According to the sheriff's report which I referred to in an article 
yesterday, police visited Cheney the evening of the incident.  But 
numerous reports *have* stated police didn't talk to Cheney until the 
next day, so at least that part of the story wasn't made up here.

re resp:68: I'm sticking with what I said.  Now you say you saw 
something about Cheney's drinking being somehow related, somewhere 
else.  Where?  Maybe someone on M-Net?  (After they saw it here, 
perhaps?)

There seems to be no evaluation of the facts going on at all here.  
People here hate the Administration and/or Republicans in general, the 
vice president shot someone in a hunting accident, there's very free 
mixing in of "wouldn't it be cool if *THIS* had happened too?" and the 
story grows and grows, feeding on itself and wishes that it was bigger.

re resp:70: An absence of information is no excuse for making up rumors.

response 74 of 218:

Feb 15 20:54 UTC 2006

re #72
"wouldn't it be cool if *THIS* had happened too?"
Where there's a vacuum: It will be filled

Cheney hasn't had a press conference in 3 1/2 years.  You expect people to
just ignore that he's VP or to not make speculations when he isn't forthcoming
about his dealings both professional and personal?  The guy was hunting
without a license and shot somebody.  You think people should just mind their
own business and forget that he shot somebody?  Are you serious?

response 76 of 218:

Feb 15 22:30 UTC 2006

People gossip and speculate when there are gaps in stories.  Me? Yea, I tend
to think the old geezer was boozing it up when he went hunting cuz that's what
people in Texas do for recreation: Drink and kill

response 78 of 218:

Feb 16 00:33 UTC 2006

Has anyone calculated how close someone would need to be to receive 200
pellets from the gun?   Can you shoot 200 of them 30 yards in a straight line?

response 80 of 218:

Feb 16 00:42 UTC 2006

re #79 oh sure, Cheney only had ONE beer.  Anyone really believe that?

response 82 of 218:

Feb 16 01:10 UTC 2006

re #81 according to news reports, instead of going to the hospital, 
Cheney went home and poured himself a good stiff cocktail.

response 84 of 218:

Feb 16 01:43 UTC 2006

my memories from my hunting days are that birdshot is usually #6 shot, a
little smaller than a standard bb and at 30 yards it is close to being
spent, might go a little damage possibly penetrate under the skin but
into the chest, through shirts and orange hunting jacket? I don't think
so. 50 yards would be just like a sprinkle of small hail stones. The
pattern would depend on the choke on the gun.

response 86 of 218:

Feb 16 06:19 UTC 2006

there are 225 pellets in an oz. of #6 shot in a standard 1 oz load for small
game birds.  The pellets are much smaller than a BB, almost half the size.

pattern sepends a lot on barrel length, choke, and the type of shotgun shell
used.

The point is, Cheney was involved in a hunting accident.  He fired his shotgun
adn injured his friend.

Had he been drinking?  I don't know and even if he had not been, came out and
said he had not been, there would still be people saying he must have been.

Going to the hospital would NOT have been an option in the eyes of the secret
service.  Not in the ambulance, not in his own car.  to have done so would
have endangered the life of his friend because 500 reporteres woul ahve shown
up and tried to find out what had happened, distracting the doctors and
hospital operations.

response 88 of 218:

Feb 16 14:06 UTC 2006

I seem to remember back during the Monica Lewinsky scandal right wingers
on Grex were eagerly inventing facts they'd like to see reported.  Some
one claimed that Clinton probably sold Monica drugs too.  I wasn't much
impressed by such speculation then, and I'm not now.  I see no reason
not to believe that we weren't told a reasonable facimile of the truth
in this case.  I mean, if they were going to lie about it, then they'd
claim someone else was holding the gun, wouldn't they?  I think the
facts as they have now been reported might have been shaded a bit -
maybe he had two beers and maybe it was more like 20 yards - but are
essentially accurate.  A bit of macho swaggering and a bit of
inattention to the job at hand are quite enough to lead to an accident
like this without having to assume drunkeness.  I wouldn't condemn
Cheney on the basis of this incident.  On the basis of how he performs
his job on the other hand....

response 90 of 218:

Feb 16 14:36 UTC 2006

>Going to the hospital would NOT have been an option in the eyes of the
>secret service....because 500 reporteres woul ahve shown up

That's a good point.  

It'd be a better point if Cheney had wanted to go the hospital, but he
didn't.  Too bad he didn't think of that; "Secret Service said I
couldn't go" is a much more sympathetic story than "I couldn't be
bothered to go". 

It'd be a better point, too, if they had informed the press in a timely
manner so that there was a danger of reporters showing up.  Regardless,
it would have been a small matter for the SecServ to control access in a
small county hospital.  

>I would very likely have gone to a nearby house and had a drink, 
>myself, if I'd just shot someone accidentally.

Ignoring the question of whether a man with a history of alcoholism and
on a long list of heart medication should be drinking at all, and
ignoring the fact that the VP and his entourage lied about his drinking
that day to the public and the police, then, yeah--me, too.

response 92 of 218:

Feb 16 17:20 UTC 2006

re #78
The choke was wide open according to the report.  They also said the distance
was 30 yards.  Neither jive with a 28 gauge birdshot.  10 yards makes more
sense...and for over 200 pellets to hit you on a wide open choke then we're
talking maybe 4 yards.  Cheney had to be drunk if he was spinning around to
shoot behind the way they were headed directly at another hunter.

re #88
Sex, guns, and violence.  Its a twisted world when gun violence gets less
attention than consentual sex.

response 94 of 218:

Feb 16 17:48 UTC 2006

cheney on his shooting victim:



"good friend"


"friend"


"aquaintance"