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Grex > Agora47 > #175: shopping for a car, this time because I have to | |
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| 25 new of 120 responses total. |
jep
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response 71 of 120:
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Nov 28 03:59 UTC 2003 |
I'd like to thank Mary Remmers for her help in buying a car. She had
offered (and I had accepted) for her to come along with me to
dealerships to make sure I got a fair deal.
She didn't actually have to do it, as it turned out, because I found
out GM employee pricing is at a fixed price. All dealerships offer
the same price for GM employees and their families. She was willing
to, though. She had begun the research process.
What a remarkable offer for her to make, though! I appreciate it
enormously.
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jep
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response 72 of 120:
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Nov 28 03:59 UTC 2003 |
re resp:70: Thanks!
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jep
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response 73 of 120:
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Nov 28 04:29 UTC 2003 |
One thing that surprised me. I thought, once I picked out the car I
wanted, of course it would become available in a day or so. I was
willing to go either with a Chevy Cavalier or a Pontiac Sunfire.
They're pretty common cars.
But nope, my choice wasn't common at all. I wanted a manual
transmission; that alone cut down my choices a lot. My dealer and I
we talked a lot of times, and things got added and subtracted to the
car I wanted each time we talked.
He wound up faxing me a list of Cavaliers that were as close as he
could find to what I wanted. None were all that close, so then he
faxed me a list of Sunfires. Eventually he located the one I picked,
but it was in Kalkaska. My "new" car came to me with 250 miles on the
odometer.
The car has some things I really didn't want (spoiler, fog lights),
and is missing something I really did want (antilock brakes). It has
something costly I could have lived without (sunroof), but my son
loves that sunroof. The sunroof was part of the Sun and Surf package
that included an MP3 player. I really love *that*. (100 Johnny Cash
songs on a CD, 91 Garth Brooks songs on another. Zowie!)
I could have gotten the ABS, but wouldn't budge on not paying for
OnStar and XM Satellite Radio.
I could have gotten exactly the car I wanted, except it would have
been black. My ex-wife's car is black. No, thanks. I didn't want to
buy a car I would hate from the start.
By having GM send me the rebate check instead of applying it to the
balance of the car, I will, when I receive it, be able to erase my
credit card balance. If I keep that balance low for the next few
years, I will be paying about $75 per month in all for a new car. If
I pay more than the minimum monthly bill I can reduce the principal
and pay off the car in a lot less than 5 years.
I don't understand money. Sometimes it does really weird things.
Usually those bite you. That seems not to have happened this time.
Right now, it appears to me the net effect of my crashing my Taurus a
month ago is that a couple of problems just plain disappeared; an
aging old car and my credit card balance.
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keesan
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response 74 of 120:
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Nov 28 13:47 UTC 2003 |
We just learned yesterday that our visitor is selling their 1996 Nissan, in
good condition, with sunroof but no MP3 player. Dark red. Anyone want it?
She has been here a week and did not mention it before. They are going to
be out of the country for a few years or would have kept it.
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twenex
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response 75 of 120:
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Nov 28 14:55 UTC 2003 |
Jep,
I sympathise about money; sometimes I feel the same way.
What's with not wanting fog lights?
It's interesting that buying a manual transmission limits
your choices. I don't know if the same thing happens in
the UK, but if it does, it would be choices in automatics
that are limited, since almost everyone drives manuals
over here. What makes you go for manual over automatic?
I'll have to ask someone whether you can still get cars
w/o anti-lock brakes in Britain or not; i think it's
illegal not to, but I'm not sure. Could Michigan (or
whichever State you're in) make them illegal, or is that
something for the federal government to work out, I
wonder?
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gull
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response 76 of 120:
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Nov 28 15:39 UTC 2003 |
When my dad has bought new cars, he's always ended up ordering one with
exactly what he wanted and waiting for it to be produced and shipped.
But he tended to want cars with less common options, like a trailer
towing package.
ABS was starting to become pretty standard on U.S. cars, but with
downward pressure on prices recently it's become optional again on most
lower-cost models. Interestingly enough, statistically ABS doesn't seem
to reduce accident rates. It's possible that drivers "compensate" for
having it by driving more aggressively, cancelling out the benefit.
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jep
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response 77 of 120:
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Nov 28 15:54 UTC 2003 |
re resp:76: Now you tell me. (-:
Sindi, advertise it in classified. I have always closely considered
cars I saw advertised there. I think others probably do, too. Now,
I'm emphatically not in the market for a car just now. But I am sure
others are.
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jep
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response 78 of 120:
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Nov 28 16:09 UTC 2003 |
I'd have rather ordered a car and gotten exactly what I wanted,
however it would have taken a month, and I didn't want to drive my
truck for another month. I would have had to order a Saturn,
according to the dealership. They estimated 3-4 weeks for delivery.
I didn't want to wait. That affected my decision not to get a Saturn.
I don't know how much the fog lights cost, but whatever it is, it was
too much. I have had fog lights in other cars. I have never gained
anything from using them.
It gets foggy out in my neck of the woods; there are more 2 hour
school delays for fog every year than there are cancellations for
snow. I've driven in every level of fog, including fog such that you
don't want to drive more than about 20 mph and shouldn't drive at
all. I have never seen any benefit at all to having fog lights under
any conditions.
I went for manual transmission over automatic because it's more fun to
drive. Also there's a slight advantage for gas mileage. Also it's
about $800 cheaper (but I'd have gone manual even if it cost the same).
In Michigan, if you drive in the winter, you are occasionally going to
slide on ice. Antilock brakes mean you don't have to pay attention to
your brakes. You can deal with keeping the car on the road and not
hitting anyone, and just stomp on the brakes.
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gull
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response 79 of 120:
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Nov 28 16:20 UTC 2003 |
I like a manual transmission car better in the snow, because I can instantly
take all the engine force off the drive wheels by pushing in the clutch.
The results are especially dramatic in a rear wheel drive car -- if the rear
end is starting to step out due to engine braking or accelleration, it will
almost always tuck right back in when I push in the clutch. I can get the
same effect in an automatic by shifting to neutral, of course, but that
means taking my hands off the wheel and there's always a risk I'll overshoot
and end up in reverse.
The used Volvo I recently bought has *rear* fog lights, which I'd never seen
before but strike me as an interesting idea. They're like another pair of
tail lights, except about twice as bright, so they penetrate the fog better
and give more of a chance of being seen.
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keesan
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response 80 of 120:
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Nov 28 16:50 UTC 2003 |
If I understand correctly, you can start a car with manual transmission by
pushing it down an incline, but not one with automatic transmission.
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jep
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response 81 of 120:
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Nov 28 17:02 UTC 2003 |
I had a Pontiac LeMans several years ago, my first manual transmission
car. I stalled it and couldn't get it restarted at the Arby's near
Hamburg. The battery was dead.
The LeMans was even smaller than my Sunfire. The parking lot there is
on a slight incline. Arby's was dead for business that evening,
fortunately for me. So I pushed the car up the incline, and down
again, jumping in to try to start it. I did this something like 5
times, unsuccessfully, but finally a kindly employee came out and
pushed the car for me. That worked better, I got it started, and I
made it home.
This illustrates more that one should pay attention to one's battery
than that one should buy a manual transmission car, in my opinion.
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rcurl
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response 82 of 120:
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Nov 28 17:28 UTC 2003 |
I buy only manual transmission cars for the various reasons others have
given above plus:
It is easier to rock the car to get it out of snow or mud; one gets better
engine breaking going downhill; my cars are less likely to be stolen; our
daughter discovered her "friends" at college don't ask to borrow her manual
("May I borrow your car?" It's a stick shift. "Oh...well, thanks anyway.")
In fact, I can't think of any advantages to an automatic shift. Why are we
having this discussion...? 8^}
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aruba
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response 83 of 120:
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Nov 28 17:54 UTC 2003 |
The only time I wish I had an automatic is when I'm in a stop-and-go traffic
jam. If I had that to do every day, I'd buy an automatic for sure.
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gull
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response 84 of 120:
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Nov 28 18:47 UTC 2003 |
Re #82: I've rocked an automatic. It's not that hard, though you do
have to lead the direction change a little with the shifter to make up
for the time it takes the transmission to shift. Check the owner's
manual first, though; the internal design of some automatics makes
rocking the car a very bad idea. Some Hondas, for example, have a
rather unique automatic transmission design that doesn't tolerate
rocking well.
Re #83: I agree with you there. Stop and go traffic gets tedious in a
hurry in a manual shift car.
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tpryan
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response 85 of 120:
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Nov 28 20:10 UTC 2003 |
Having a hand on the manual transmission can delay you changing
the station on the radio when the commercials come on (and yes, I
do change the station when the commercials come on the NPR stations).
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rcurl
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response 86 of 120:
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Nov 28 21:03 UTC 2003 |
I think the dominance of the automatic transmission comes about at the
stage of learning to drive. Shifting is a skill that needs to be learned
and practiced. This is frustrating for both the learner and the
instructor! Of course, the learner can't realize the advantages of a
manual transmission, while the instructor can finish the job more easily
(for the same pay) with an automatic. I learned to drive before there were
good automatic transmissions, and of course our daughter wanted to learn
to drive with what was available, which meant a stick shift.
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drew
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response 87 of 120:
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Nov 28 22:00 UTC 2003 |
Re #83-84:
The other two major disadvantages of manual transmissions are:
* Harder to goto full acceleration when needed (ie, when a traffic signal
changes at *exactly* the wrong moment)
* No "park" gear. Parking brake cables invariably go bad or get stuck
eventually; and parking with the gears engaged would disallow things
like remote starting.
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jep
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response 88 of 120:
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Nov 28 22:16 UTC 2003 |
I can "rock" an automatic transmission car out of the snow more easily
than a manual. I had practice during my time in Houghton.
On the other hand, I can get quick acceleration from a manual much
more quickly and reliably than from an automatic. (Just downshift.)
The only time I've had a problem with the emergency brake is when it
wasn't used for a long time. With a manual, you're always using the
emergency brake.
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jep
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response 89 of 120:
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Nov 28 22:18 UTC 2003 |
The fog light thing still has me bugged. If anyone is a fan of fog
lights, please explain a little more. I honestly don't understand
them. I find it to be an irritant to have them on my car. Maybe I'm
missing something?
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gelinas
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response 90 of 120:
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Nov 28 23:18 UTC 2003 |
I'm beginning to suspect that the purpose of fog lights is to make your car
more easily seen in fog, not to make it easier for you to see. But I can't
recall approaching a car using fog lights, so I can't test the hypothesis.
(I put my headlights on earlier, and leave them on later, even though both
cars have daytime running lights, to make it easier for others to see me.)
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bru
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response 91 of 120:
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Nov 28 23:52 UTC 2003 |
I always thought amber foglamps helped me see better in fog.
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gull
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response 92 of 120:
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Nov 29 01:06 UTC 2003 |
Re #90: The idea of fog lamps is to get them low enough to get the light
under the fog. There's often a clear area just above the ground. A lot
of factory fog lamps aren't very effective, though; they're more for looks.
One of the things that annoys me about automatics is under situations
where you're using a lot of throttle at a steady speed (like climbing a
hill) they tend to 'hunt' between gears. On the Ford van I used to own
I'd get into situations where it would lose speed in 3rd, downshift to
2nd, gain speed, upshift to 3rd, lose speed, downshift to 2nd... I
ended up manually locking it in 2nd anyway, so I might as well have had
a manual.
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jep
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response 93 of 120:
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Nov 29 02:44 UTC 2003 |
There was a study several years ago that showed people who use their
headlights all the time get in less accidents. I've never been
convinced the headlights made the difference. People who do things
like that are probably more careful drivers, and a car with headlights
on in the daytime was unusual. It seemed to me those things probably
accounted for the safety difference.
Anyway, Canada passed a law saying all cars have to have headlights on
all the time. Maybe it's just for new cars; I'm not sure. I think it
was backed by GM. GM came out with the marketing scheme of daytime
running lights (DRL), and new GM cars have all had them for about 7 or
8 years now. The headlights aren't on; just the parking lights. I
don't know of any follow-up studies on whether DRLs make a
difference. I assume they don't when I'm driving.
I also turn on my headlights earlier than many, and leave them on
later than many. Headlights don't cost very much so I don't care if I
wear them out faster.
Another thing I do, if I don't have my headlights on, but see a few
other cars which do, I turn mine on too. If other people think they
need them, maybe they really do.
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dcat
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response 94 of 120:
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Nov 29 17:09 UTC 2003 |
IIRC, daytime running lights is also headlights on low-power as well as
parking lights, but not on fully.
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rcurl
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response 95 of 120:
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Nov 29 18:29 UTC 2003 |
The idea of fog lights is to set the light low so there is not direct
return glare, and to use yellow lights as that is supposedly not reflected
as greatly. I have read that these effects are illusionary. However I
have found that trying to use high-beams in a snow storm is much worse
than using low-beams, so there are better and worse ways to use illumination.
(On some occasions I have opened the driver side door slightly so that
I can follow the centerline of the road, which was not visible in the
snow squall ahead.)
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