|
|
| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 170 responses total. |
mynxcat
|
|
response 68 of 170:
| 
Jan 8 19:48 UTC 2004 |
I haven't left yet. I'm waiting to get my items removed. Or till some
consensus comes up about it.
Twila, I came here to make friends. And then when that happened, I
realised I really liked Grex, till I started really getting into the
whole policy and getting involved in coop. I think it's then I
realised that it's pretty cliquey. I tried to work past that. I may
have succeeded somewhat. But I think gelinas' comment drove the point.
Maybe, grexers see it is as annoying. I haven't seen many people
willing to do anything. Nearly every idea that comes up is either
ignored, or criticised without giving it a chance. And god forbid you
ever question policy or why it works for some people and not others. I
will admit, that it's a little sad, but I'll live. And I don't expect
to make a huge dent when I leave anyways.
I realise I could still participate in grex, and forget coop. But
that's not something I think I'm able to do. I can do that on mnet,
but it didn't work too well on grex, and I don't expect it will. I
just want to make a clean break.
Do I apologise for being a parodier. No. I'm sorry that feelings were
hurt. I would still parody someone if I got the oppurtunity, though I
don't think I'm very good at it. I see my flaws, and heck I've
parodied them too. And I've been parodied. I happened to stumble
across a parody on me, and I didn't have the knee-jerk reaction that
Valerie had. I thought it was pretty funny. (I don't remember what it
was exactly, but I remember thinking - wow! that's pretty much on mark)
And Jan, I know it's not worth much. And I guess this is more
devastating to Valerie especially in light of people who never
normally posted showing up in her diary. Speaking for myself, I was
really interested in her diary. I didn't agree with some things she
said, but I liked reading about the kids and other people's kids. I
guess I'm saying that Valerie's Baby Diary wasn't just a source of
material for me. (And I found it long before I found mnet's agora)
|
anderyn
|
|
response 69 of 170:
|
Jan 8 20:03 UTC 2004 |
I don't like being parodied. And I resent being used as fodder. This is a
personal preference, and maybe it's not very understandable to those who are
comfortable with it. I wouldn't have minded one bit if the only people
parodied were those who were okay with having it done to/with/for them. I
wasn't and am not comfortable with it, and I don't think Valerie is either.
|
gull
|
|
response 70 of 170:
|
Jan 8 20:16 UTC 2004 |
Re resp:68: I think it's odd that you'd claim Grex is cliquey and
rejects outside ideas. This whole item, and the previous one, came
about because an "outsider" brought up something a long-time Grexer did
that they didn't like. There have been over a hundred responses
discussing this, most of them supporting the "outsider's" objections.
That doesn't look like a rejection of outside ideas to me.
|
cross
|
|
response 71 of 170:
|
Jan 8 20:22 UTC 2004 |
In a free society, you don't get to choose who parodies you. Perhaps
some people will read #69 and agree not to do it, simply out of respect
for your feelings. But other's won't. That doesn't make it nice, but
it doesn't make it wrong, either. The only way to escape it is not to
post something that's parodyable, or ignore it.
On mnet, Jan has said that that leads to a decay in the ability to form
a cohesive community. I don't think that's true. It may lead to a decay
in the ability to create the kind of community Jan would like to see, but
that's different.
|
other
|
|
response 72 of 170:
|
Jan 8 20:30 UTC 2004 |
We live in an environment in which people cannot be expected to
behave as if they understood the consequences of their actions.
That means that we cannot simultaneously preserve individual liberty
within the context of polite society. People are free to not be
polite, and we are free to ignore them but not to restrict their
ability to display the extent of their sociopathy for all the world
to see. Those are the parameters we established, and Grex grew up
in an environment which, merely by means of its relative obscurity,
was somewhat protected from that reality.
We no longer have the cozy shelter or our obscurity, and the rain is
made of excrement. We can either plug our noses and go about our
business, or change the way we exist, or cease to exist. It looks
more like we're going down the latter path than either of the
former, but this is all happening so fast it is hard to draw long
term conclusions.
|
anderyn
|
|
response 73 of 170:
|
Jan 8 20:39 UTC 2004 |
In which case (my not being able to choose dah dah dah... ) I can freely tell
the people who did it that they suck. Which is pretty much how I feel about
it. It was a cruel thing, and it wasn't necessary for anyone to do. It wasn't
wrong in any sense but the fact that a person who respected others wouldn't
do it. IMHO, of course.
|
gelinas
|
|
response 74 of 170:
|
Jan 8 20:56 UTC 2004 |
mynxcat, this one paragraph from your response illustrates my point about
you being annoying:
} Do I apologise for being a parodier. No. I'm sorry that feelings were
} hurt. I would still parody someone if I got the oppurtunity, though I
} don't think I'm very good at it. I see my flaws, and heck I've parodied
} them too. And I've been parodied. I happened to stumble across a parody
} on me, and I didn't have the knee-jerk reaction that Valerie had. I
} thought it was pretty funny. (I don't remember what it was exactly,
} but I remember thinking - wow! that's pretty much on mark)
Note especially:
I'm sorry that feelings were hurt. I would still parody someone
if I got the oppurtunity,
That basic lack of concern for the feelings of others is what I find
annoying.
Am I annoyed that you disagree with me? Nope. Lots of people do.
when they can support their positions, I learn from them, and sometimes,
change my opinion. I'm fairly certain you could find instances of that
happening here on grex.
If you are interested, I'll be glad to go back through this conference and
isolate the specific responses that led me to my original comment above.
I'll send you the list in e-mail or post it here; your choice. I'll even
apologise if, after that review, I find I agree with you.
|
jp2
|
|
response 75 of 170:
|
Jan 8 21:00 UTC 2004 |
This response has been erased.
|
other
|
|
response 76 of 170:
|
Jan 8 21:06 UTC 2004 |
Jamie, if you had the wherewithal to actually call me stupid to my face, I
would laugh at you. Of course, despite the bullshit and all your
troublemaking, you're probably someone whose company I would find entertaining
in the real world, possibly because of and possibly despite our difference
in political (and other) opinion. That doesn't mean I don't sometimes have
the urge to slap you sillier than you already are, but thats all just part
of the world we're in.
|
scott
|
|
response 77 of 170:
|
Jan 8 21:06 UTC 2004 |
Freedom does not preclude civility.
|
jp2
|
|
response 78 of 170:
|
Jan 8 21:10 UTC 2004 |
This response has been erased.
|
other
|
|
response 79 of 170:
|
Jan 8 21:18 UTC 2004 |
When I mention Grex growing up, I was referring to the period from its
inception to about 1993 or 1994, by which time it had pretty well established
itself in terms of style and character. The obscurity which shielded people
here from the incivility of the rest of the world was primarily evidenced by
the reluctance of people who did not share the Grex values of the time to
stay and invest themselves and their time in the community.
Of course, these are merely my perceptions.
And that whitefish thing, THAT's what I'm talking about. I actually saw a
live performance of that Monty Python skit by some local folks here in Ann
Arbor (students at UM, actually) and I nearly lost control of bodily
functions, I laughed so hard.
|
jp2
|
|
response 80 of 170:
|
Jan 8 21:22 UTC 2004 |
This response has been erased.
|
other
|
|
response 81 of 170:
|
Jan 8 21:24 UTC 2004 |
They'll love that at the post office. Unless those things come in really
small packages. I only have a little PO Box.
|
other
|
|
response 82 of 170:
|
Jan 8 21:26 UTC 2004 |
(The funniest parts were the reactions of the people who sat closest to the
performance area, later in the skit when it became screamingly apparent that
the fish being employed were not made of something with durable structural
integrity like rubber, but were actually real.)
|
mynxcat
|
|
response 83 of 170:
|
Jan 8 21:37 UTC 2004 |
Re 74> I think I know where this is coming from. I can be insensitive,
and I can be a jerk, true. And that sentence didn't come out right.
Yes, I'd still parody someone. I'd be careful to choose my subjects
though. Slynne's game, Twila isn't. Valerie's off limits. Iggy's ok to
parody. Then there are some people who I don't care if they care to be
parodied or not. They haven't tried to be nice to people. They're self-
righteous and pompous, and rude. Some of them are self-centered and
vain. Are they going to be hurt when they read the stuff? Have they
considered other people's feelings?
I'd be interested in seeing which posts you thought were particularly
annoying, and why. Feel free to post them on grex.
|
gelinas
|
|
response 84 of 170:
|
Jan 8 21:40 UTC 2004 |
Will do. Thanks. :)
|
willcome
|
|
response 85 of 170:
|
Jan 8 21:58 UTC 2004 |
Gelinas, you're a weirdo.
|
flem
|
|
response 86 of 170:
|
Jan 8 22:05 UTC 2004 |
> Jan has said that [something] leads to a decay in the ability to form
> a cohesive community.
Here's what I think leads to inability to form a cohesive community:
knowing that your contribution to the community may be erased at any
time on the whim of some other person with an axe to grind.
|
jep
|
|
response 87 of 170:
|
Jan 8 22:40 UTC 2004 |
I'm surprised to see anyone singling out mynxcat as annoying or as a
problem on Grex.
|
cross
|
|
response 88 of 170:
|
Jan 8 22:50 UTC 2004 |
Regarding #77; True, but freedom demands we tolerate some incivility to
preserve liberty.
|
scott
|
|
response 89 of 170:
|
Jan 8 22:57 UTC 2004 |
I've never had a problem with mynxcat on Grex, aside from disagreeing on
whether Grex is a clique or not.
But it was rather a shock to see that she'd basically taken stuff from Grex
over to M-Net, for the purpose of a very long-term and rather mean parody.
And that apparently she felt no need to inform the principal subject of that
parody that it was going on all this time. Which tends to disprove the
claim that it was all a friendly joke, since what would be the point if
the subject (who presumably should find it funny) doesn't find out at all?
I suppose it's possible that everybody expected Valerie to somehow know
about the parody. Still, it's been pretty common for a long time that
M-Netters seem more fascinated with Grex than Grexers with M-Net, hence
no M-Net parody conference (or even items I can recall).
Yes, I'll agree that the baby diaries told a lot of extremely personal detail.
So when somebody gives you too much personal info, is the accepted polite
response to go make fun that person behind their back?
|
naftee
|
|
response 90 of 170:
|
Jan 8 23:00 UTC 2004 |
re 87 Yeah, it'd be like someone disagreeing with GreX policy. Shocking.
|
cross
|
|
response 91 of 170:
|
Jan 8 23:10 UTC 2004 |
Regarding #89; Actually, there *is* an M-Net parody conference on grex,
called ``mnut''. One of the more prolific posters there was Jan, but
it has since fallen into obscurity and only rarely used.
I must say, as a reader of the mnet agora conference (and only a rare
poster there), I always just assumed Valerie knew about the parody and
ignored it for the juvenille rambling it was. Actually, it wasn't one
of the better parodies there; I usually found it boring. There was
exactly one time I read something funny; a quote of something someone
(not Valerie) wrote about poo terminology.
|
krj
|
|
response 92 of 170:
|
Jan 8 23:12 UTC 2004 |
There aren't too many abuse targets left on M-net.
|