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Grex > Coop11 > #84: outgoing internet access for non-members | |
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| Author |
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| 25 new of 127 responses total. |
prp
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response 64 of 127:
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Mar 26 00:25 UTC 1999 |
Allowing non-payers to vote on spending seems extremely not wise.
Allowing them to vote on things like defaults might be OK, but
you would have to come up with some way to prevent ballot box stuffing.
As for outgoing Internet for non-payers, at least on a try it and see
how much load it generates basis, I support the idea. In fact I'm
holding off joining in hopes of being the first to use it. Well that
and the household repair budget July has been spent. ...
Remember that current proposal still requires validation, which will
eliminate the vandals and those seeking anonymity for other illegal
aims.
I think this leaves only one reason against the proposal: fund raising.
And here you can argue the effect either way.
I do think the number of solisations one sees when learning about
Grex exceeds the point of diminishing returns. Although Aruba and
others have my sympathy.
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aruba
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response 65 of 127:
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Mar 26 02:42 UTC 1999 |
I was curious to see just how often richard uses the word "should" in coop,
so I wrote a little awk program to count it. I was sure that richard would
come out first when i checked for uses of "should" per word entered. I wasn't
being quite fair to him, however - actually he ranks 8th. here are the top
20:
User Resps Lines Words Shlds Shoulds/Word
-------- ----- -------- ---------- ----- ------------
pthomas 2 6 35 1 0.0286
gregb 2 8 63 1 0.0159
mic 5 12 71 1 0.0141
silver69 2 8 80 1 0.0125
omni 2 9 87 1 0.0115
clees 3 50 467 5 0.0107
mcnally 11 102 838 8 0.0095
richard 54 504 4391 27 0.0061
dpc 110 503 3965 23 0.0058
srw 45 447 4090 21 0.0051
jiffer 15 70 603 3 0.0050
arthurp 12 66 605 3 0.0050
prp 10 65 405 2 0.0049
robh 30 121 837 4 0.0048
atticus 6 28 213 1 0.0047
spiff 9 132 1332 6 0.0045
senna 25 150 1405 6 0.0043
mwg 4 52 461 2 0.0043
jazz 7 69 517 2 0.0039
jep 64 641 5627 20 0.0036
The full list may be found in ~aruba/shoulds.
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scg
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response 66 of 127:
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Mar 26 04:37 UTC 1999 |
I'm curious about why Richard is criticizing somebody else for saying he would
drop his membership if Richard's proposal passes, while Richard has been
refusing for years to become a member. Then again, I probably shouldn't spend
my time wondering about such things.
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rcurl
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response 67 of 127:
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Mar 26 05:15 UTC 1999 |
That's an interesting game, Mark. Now, try it on "curious".
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aruba
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response 68 of 127:
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Mar 26 15:24 UTC 1999 |
There are many fewer "curiouses" than "shoulds". Here is everyone who has
said "curious" in this edition of coop:
Login Resps Lines Words Curs Curiouses/Words
-------- ----- ----- ----- ---- ---------------
hematite 1 3 29 1 0.03448
fungster 4 11 69 1 0.01449
albaugh 26 116 1049 1 0.00095
jshafer 17 148 1236 1 0.00081
joey819 1 228 1773 1 0.00056
valerie 95 768 7111 2 0.00028
devnull 89 828 7485 2 0.00027
cmcgee 88 582 5261 1 0.00019
mta 104 873 6910 1 0.00014
aruba 302 3278 26480 2 0.00008
scg 138 1269 13165 1 0.00008
remmers 209 1740 13436 1 0.00007
rcurl 306 2151 19103 1 0.00005
steve 356 3632 31213 1 0.00003
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rcurl
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response 69 of 127:
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Mar 26 16:13 UTC 1999 |
(I asked not just because Mark had just used "curious", but because
my students at UM almost always began technical questions with
"I'm curious if (why/what/how/etc)....", rather than just asking the
question.)
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cmcgee
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response 70 of 127:
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Mar 26 19:57 UTC 1999 |
Darn, my curiosity isn't statistically significant.
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keesan
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response 71 of 127:
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Mar 26 22:53 UTC 1999 |
If I understood correctly, richard may not have the highest frequency of
shoulds per word, but he did have the highest absolute number. Your chart
is interesting in revealing the wordiest people (aruba is up near the top,
at least from the portion of that chart I can still see; this might be
something to do with his lengthy treasurer's reports). What period of time
were these charts for, and for which conferences?
This is a fun game, thanks Mark.
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aruba
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response 72 of 127:
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Mar 26 23:47 UTC 1999 |
THe numbers I gave were for the current coop conference (coop11). Richard
doesn't have the most total shoulds, you have to look at the full list in
~aruba/shoulds to see that actually it's I who have the most total shoulds.
Fancy that. I thought I was avoiding the word.
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keesan
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response 73 of 127:
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Mar 27 01:24 UTC 1999 |
If you recalculate to include the response in which you talk about the word
should, does it significantly affect results? Three more shoulds in #72.
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devnull
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response 74 of 127:
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Mar 27 05:13 UTC 1999 |
Richard's proposal bothers me because it seems somewhat beaurocratic, and
I think one of the cool things about grex is how it avoids beaurocracy fairly
well. Also, grex is about electronic communication, and I don't think bulk
dead tree mailings are something we're interested in.
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rcurl
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response 75 of 127:
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Mar 27 20:15 UTC 1999 |
How about doing "I", "me" and "my"?
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janc
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response 76 of 127:
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Mar 27 20:42 UTC 1999 |
Interesting. The most talkative people in Coop appear to be steve,
aruba, janc, rcurl, mdw, keesan, remmers and scg (in that order), all of
whom have typed more than 10,000 words into coop. Of those keesan is
the least likely to say "should" and I'm the most likely. I say three
shoulds for every one keesan says. I should have really been in the top
20 list, since I'm tied with "jep" for shoulds, and he was number 20.
I've decided that I'm not the least bit embarrassed by this. Coop
exists to talk about what we should do, so I should think that any who
doesn't say "should" very much should be embarrassed that they are not
keeping to the topic, and should work on shoulding some more.
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rcurl
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response 77 of 127:
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Mar 27 23:26 UTC 1999 |
Re #72: it takes one to know one?
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keesan
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response 78 of 127:
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Mar 28 01:59 UTC 1999 |
I have seen most of the 'shoulders' at board meetings deciding on policy.
Marcus is staff (I think), and Rane likes Rules. Makes sense to me.
(Keesan wastes words instead of paper.)
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hhsrat
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response 79 of 127:
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Mar 28 02:28 UTC 1999 |
I should think that I should really want to start saying should more
often. Then again, maybe I should not say should at all. Should I or
shouldn't I?
How should I go about finding out how many words a particular person has
posted in coop?
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aruba
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response 80 of 127:
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Mar 28 03:33 UTC 1999 |
To do a search, run the program ~aruba/bin/wordcount, and pass it two
parameters. The first is the word to look for, and the second is the
conference to look in. So to get the "should" list above, run
~aruba/bin/wordcount should coop11
Sorry, it's not smart enough to translate "coop" into "coop11", so you have
to know the real name of the conference you want to search.
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rcurl
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response 81 of 127:
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Mar 28 17:31 UTC 1999 |
I don't "like Rules" except when they greatly facilitate accomplishing
things. For example, following rules helps one write programs. Conscensus
doesn't work too well there.
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prp
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response 82 of 127:
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Mar 29 06:38 UTC 1999 |
Aruba "should" have started a new item. Or maybe he was trying to
change the subject. Does Picospan have any way to split one item
into two? Now there would be a way to establish order without rules.
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davel
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response 83 of 127:
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Mar 29 11:39 UTC 1999 |
No.
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remmers
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response 84 of 127:
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Mar 29 17:37 UTC 1999 |
(However, if you type "enter" at the "Respond or pass" prompt, Picospan
will start a new item for you, then put you back at the "Respond or
pass" prompt of the old item...)
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richard
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response 85 of 127:
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Mar 30 23:24 UTC 1999 |
devnull, actually my proposal is *less* bureacratic than what is in
place, it entails no fee structures or member requirements other than
validation. so your reasoning is faulty. if you want less bureacracy
in grex, you should supportmy proposal actually.
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albaugh
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response 86 of 127:
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Mar 30 23:25 UTC 1999 |
You <i>should</i> be <b>curious</b>! :-)
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devnull
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response 87 of 127:
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Mar 31 03:19 UTC 1999 |
Re #85: OK, maybe `beaurocratic' isn't the right word. But I object to
sending out mass snail mail every year, and there's a certain amount of
extra paperwork requirements in terms of signing a contract agreeing to
something. I don't think signing contracts is the right way to build a
sense of community; it has the implication that we can't trust people to
use their common sense and respect other people.
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richard
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response 88 of 127:
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Apr 1 00:10 UTC 1999 |
grex gets a "contract" from each user when they run newuser. they have
to send in something to validate anyway, so asking them to printout
some short online contract and sign it isnt that big deal. It just
protects grex legally if someone granted outbound internet and ftp causes
havoc and his/her access has to be taken away. I dont think it creates
much extra paperwork at all.
And the snail mail idea is predicated on the assumption that since grex
would no longer be requiring automatic contributions for membership, it
will need to directly remind members more often that they can contribute.
People will be more likely to contribute ifyou send them an envelope in
the mail once a year than simply be on an honor system to renew their
memberships once a year. Under my idea, grex could say,
in the letters "you validate and want to be part of grex, you'll be a
member for life...you'll always be part of the grex community, so please
consider contributing so we can maintain ourselves" .etc
How wonderful and inclusive is that? Instead of being threatened with
dis-membership if they dont write a check, grex would be saying we want
you and we will always want you as part of us. It will give members a
warm and fuzzy feeling and you will raise more money. They will
contribute because they want to, notbecause theyhave to.
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