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| Author |
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| 25 new of 91 responses total. |
mdw
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response 62 of 91:
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Oct 12 03:28 UTC 1999 |
My recollection (many years old) is that liver was one of the few meat
products high in vitamin C (and many other vitamins and minerals.)
Brewer's yeast is also a common constituent of vitamin pills.
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rcurl
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response 63 of 91:
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Oct 12 05:34 UTC 1999 |
Please provide documentation for production of vitamin C by mammalian
cells. Vitamin C is found in every cell in mammals, as it is essential
for many metabolic functions, but as far as I have been able to find
out, it is not a product of any mammalian metabolic process. It must be
obtained from external sources (which can include animal tissue rich
in it, although most is not - witness that scurvy results only from
a lack of fruit and vegetable sources of Vitamin C).
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arabella
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response 64 of 91:
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Oct 12 09:25 UTC 1999 |
I have read that cats produce vitamin C in their bodies, though
I'm not sure of the mechanism. i will try to find a cite.
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i
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response 65 of 91:
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Oct 12 10:43 UTC 1999 |
_The Nutrition Bible_ (ISBN 0-688-11619-1) shows 3 oz. of beef or pork
liver containing 33% of RDA of vitamin C. Not what I'd call "high" -
4 oz. of fresh-squeeze orange juice has over 3 times as much.
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jazz
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response 66 of 91:
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Oct 12 13:01 UTC 1999 |
Well, it's water-soluble, whaddya expect?
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rcurl
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response 67 of 91:
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Oct 12 16:35 UTC 1999 |
It has been pointed out that every cell in mammals contains vitamin C -
but it was not produced (syntheisized) there.
I suppose the British Navy used limes instead of liver, and hence became
called "limeys", because liver did not store as well. If it had, maybe
they would now be called "liveries".
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remmers
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response 68 of 91:
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Oct 12 17:04 UTC 1999 |
Re danr's resp:60 - I've had very good success with a "moderately low"
carbohydrate diet. Since switching to one about 18 months ago, I lost
over 25 pounds in the first 9 months -- virtually all of it fat loss --
and have been very stable in weight ever since. Since losing the
weight, I feel better physically and emotionally than I have in years,
and seem to have no tendency to put pounds back on. And while I was
losing weight, I didn't feel like I was starving myself.
What I've been on is the so-called "Zone" diet, which is a 40/30/30
regimen (40% of calories from carb's, 30% from protein, 30% from fat),
maintained at every meal and snack. There's more to it than that,
though. I recommend getting hold of Barry Sears' "Zone" books and
slogging through them -- a somewhat painful experience, but the
benefits have proved well worth it, in my case at least.
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keesan
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response 69 of 91:
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Oct 12 17:22 UTC 1999 |
Liver, fried, 3 oz, 23 mg vitamin C. One cup orange juice 124 mg, so 3 oz
orange juice (which is mostly water) 46 mg. Liver is full of all sorts of
toxins, which the body detoxifies there. Liver 185 calories, orange juice
111 for the cup, or about 20 calories for the same amount of C. Too much
liver eating will give you vitamin A overdose.
Jim suggests eating high-fiber carbohydrates to control insulin production,
rather than white flour, white rice, sugar, and the like. They take longer
to digest and you don't feel hungry so soon. Try beans and whole grains.
Protein excess is broken down and interferes with the metabolism - ketosis
from too many ketone bodies.
'It is possible to consume too much protein. ...protein overload effect, seen
in the hypertrophy of their livers and kidneys. People who wish to lose
weight may be handicapped in their efforst if they consume too much protein
(due to inadequate intake of fruits, vegetables and grains, which are low
calorie). Diets high in protein necessitate higher intakes of calcium as
well, because such diets promote calcium excretion. There are evidently no
benefits to be gained by consuming a diet that derives more than 15 percet
of its kcalories from protein, and there are possible risks as intakes rise
to 20 or more percet of kcalories which kcalories are adequate.' (I. e., if
you are on a weight reducing diet, over 15% is okay, for short periods, it
is the absolute not relative amounts).
Animal products are usually high in fat, since domesticated animals
have been bred specifically to be fatty and to contain solid fats. Wild
animals are about 5% fat, like grains. Skim milk or chees from it are lower
fat.
We are not trying to lose weight, in fact we would like to gain weight,
and we eat lots of carbohydrates, in unrefined form. I suspect that Remmers'
lifestyle changes (walking more) have been the main reason for his weight
loss, plus his former diet was probably even higher in fat and protein than
his Zone diet.
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remmers
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response 70 of 91:
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Oct 13 01:18 UTC 1999 |
I don't think so. When the fall semester started last year and
I got busy with school, my exercise activity dropped drastically
but I continued to lose weight over the next several months, at
about the same rate as during the summer when I was much more
active.
My former diet was actually lower in protein and fat than my
current one, but much higher in carbohydrate, especially of the
starchy variety.
A point that's often overlooked about the Zone diet is that it's
a restricted-calorie diet. Part of it involves calculating your
daily food needs based on your lean body mass and activity
level. If you follow the recommendations, you end up consuming
a lot fewer calories than the average American gets. Since most
Americans are overweight, it's not surprising that most people
lose weight on it, even if they're not very active. (Although
Sindi might actually gain weight...)
What I found to be so different about the Zone from other
weight-loss approaches I've tried is that I am able to stay on
it without feeling that I'm starving myself. That plus my
improved sense of well-being is why I've stuck with it, I'm sure.
I've read quotes about excessive protein consumption similar to
the one Sindi gives in #69. I'm sure that excess protein can do
all that, but I don't think the Zone diet is excessive. It is
specifically formulated to balance the protein with enough
carbohydrate to avoid ketosis. (In contrast to extreme high-
protein, low-carb diets like Atkins, which is designed to induce
ketosis.)
Much of what Sindi says is quite compatible with the Zone diet.
Generally, it recommends getting most of one's carbohydrate from
high-fiber foods: fresh fruits and vegetables, beans, and whole
grains, and minimizing intake of refined flour and sugar products.
Also, protein sources should be low fat (e.g. chicken, turkey,
soy), and red meat should be minimized or avoided altogether.
Fat consumption should be mainly of the monounsaturated variety
(e.g. olive oil and various kinds of nuts), with saturated
fat being avoided.
My take on the Zone is that it's a moderate, sensible diet that
works, not just as a temporary weight-loss strategy but as a
permanent approach to eating.
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gull
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response 71 of 91:
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Oct 13 02:29 UTC 1999 |
I'm not sure how effectively I could limit my calorie intake. I've never
gone and calculated how many calories I eat in a day, but I have what a
friend of mine refers to as a "hummingbird metabolism." I pretty much have
to eat every four or five hours while I'm awake; after about four hours or
so, I start to get tired, irritable, and depressed, and I have trouble
concentrating. I do best if whatever I eat has a fair amount of protein;
too much sugar is the worst thing, it helps for an hour or so and then I
come down off it hard. Usually I kind of snack my way through the day,
because it tends to keep my moods more stable and keep me alert.
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mdw
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response 72 of 91:
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Oct 13 07:14 UTC 1999 |
My recollection is that while most mammals can synthesize vitamin C, all
primates (and some other species) can't. On the other hand, I believe
humans can synthesize vitamin E, but rodents can't. I don't see any
obvious web pages that discuss this in general, but I did find this for
pigs:
http://www.jefo.ca/references/ref_porcivit.html
(It's clear from the page that neonatal pigs can't synthesize C, but
adult pigs can.)
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gracel
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response 73 of 91:
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Oct 13 15:34 UTC 1999 |
What I've heard about vitamin C is that guinea pigs and humans don't produce
it for themselves, but other mammals do. (Some of our cats were healthier
when I gave them extra anyway, notably the two with recurring urinary tract
infections)
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rcurl
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response 74 of 91:
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Oct 13 17:26 UTC 1999 |
I accept the provided evidence that (some) mammalian cells can synthesize
VItamin C.
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peacefrg
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response 75 of 91:
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Oct 13 21:40 UTC 1999 |
Does anybody know how dolphins would react to it?
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keesan
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response 76 of 91:
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Oct 13 23:32 UTC 1999 |
Perhaps the excess vitamin C, which is ascorbic acid, acidified your cats'
urinary tracts. Cranberry juice is used for this purpose.
Carbohydrates are either starches or sugars, the former taking longer to
digest than the latter. Unrefined starches are inside cell walls, which are
composed of cellulose, which I think is also considered a carbohydrate, but
people cannot digest it, and rely on their intestinal microbes to help. A
very fibrous diet can cause gas until your microbes adapt, as can lactose
(milk sugar) in people who do not have the enzymes to digest it, as the
bacteria in the lower intestines feast on what was not previously digested
and produce carbon dioxide and hydrogen sulfide.
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rcurl
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response 77 of 91:
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Oct 14 04:02 UTC 1999 |
It is not possible to produce hydrogen sulfide from lactose.
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keesan
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response 78 of 91:
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Oct 14 15:55 UTC 1999 |
I know that, but you can produce it from excess protein (amino acids sometimes
have sulfur in them) that makes it to the large intestine because it was
enclosed in a cell wall and therefore not digestible by human enzymes.
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rcurl
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response 79 of 91:
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Oct 14 19:27 UTC 1999 |
What has that got to do with lactose intolerance, alluded to in #76?
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keesan
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response 80 of 91:
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Oct 14 19:34 UTC 1999 |
Lactose is one of several things that make it to the large intestine and are
broken down by bacteria there. I presume the lactose goes to carbon dioxide
and alcohol by fermentation, making one 'gassy'.
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jiffer
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response 81 of 91:
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Oct 14 20:09 UTC 1999 |
Dairy products are actually broken down by enzymes. But one doesn't just get
gassy with lactose intolerance. There is all the cramps, the diaherea, the
nausea, etc. Any more questions about the pain?
And usually the symptons are pretty immediate or soon after, that is why i
am careful when I do eat diary products.
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rcurl
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response 82 of 91:
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Oct 15 07:13 UTC 1999 |
It is the growth of bacteria feeding on the undigested lactose that leads
to the symptoms.
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keesan
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response 83 of 91:
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Oct 15 16:04 UTC 1999 |
In essence you have spoiled milk in your large intestine. Supposedly yogurt
will not cause these symptoms because the lactic acid bacteria have
predigested the lactose to lactic acid for you, and they also produce their
own antibiotics to keep other things from growing. I did a translation once
about a Polish orphanage that fed acidophilus milk to its kids to cure endemic
intestinal infections. It is like hiring an army of friendly bacteria.
Lactic acid bacteria work hard for us in many ways. Making cheese (Swiss
cheese also employs propionic acid bacteria). Sauerkraut. Other things
produced in a salty environment, which these bacteria tolerate, such as brined
olives, old-fashioned pickled cukes (not the vinegar type, which is done by
adding acetic acid). I wonder if pickles and olives improve digestion.
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orinoco
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response 84 of 91:
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Oct 15 18:18 UTC 1999 |
(Is there lactose in cabbage for the bacteria to digest, or are they not
limited to digesting lactose?)
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keesan
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response 85 of 91:
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Oct 16 01:39 UTC 1999 |
I think they can digest many different sugars. Lactobacillus acidophilus is
fed to people who are receiving oral antibiotics, and 'may result in the
temporary establishment of this organism in the gut and the comcomitant partial
suppression of other gut microbes' (which include drug-resistant
staphylococcus, yeasts, etc.) These bacteria do best in acid environments.
They also produce lactose from glycogen, which is the animal equivalent of
plant starch, after breaking it down to simple sugars. (Starch consists of
a lot of sugars attached in a chain). From a book Medical Microbiology.
Maybe adding vinegar helps the bacteria to get started? But lactic acid
tastes a lot different from vinegar.
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arabella
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response 86 of 91:
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Oct 17 08:02 UTC 1999 |
And a lot better, in my opinion. Give me old-fashioned barrel
pickles any day over nasty vinegar ones (I hate vinegar).
I have made barrel-type dill pickles and they smell just wonderful
when they are fermenting.
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