response 62 of 378:

Mar 6 21:37 UTC 2006

Health insurance costs go up if many of the people in the group don't take
care of their health, and statistically fatter people are more likely to have
health problems.  Which does not mean that slynne, who may get more exercise
than the average thin person, is more likely to have health problems because
of her weight.   Health insurance companies charge smokers more for private
policies, but group policies probably work on statistics, so companies pay
more for insurance because some people smoke.

response 64 of 378:

Mar 6 22:10 UTC 2006

resp:60 Well, if you are talking from a point of view of public policy, 
then I will agree that diet should be a matter of public concern. I 
strongly believe that most people (thin or fat) in this country 
probably do not have good diets. I think that there are a lot of public 
policy decisions that can enourage healthy diets and I support those 
things. I dont believe that such policies should be directed at only 
the obese since everyone can benefit from eating a healthy diet and 
exercise. 

However, we are talking about people ridiculing another person because 
she happened to commit the crime of being fat and eating an ice cream 
cone in public. An individual's personal choices are not anyone else's 
business if they dont directly have an effect on the other person (like 
second hand smoke does). If public shaming worked, there wouldnt be a 
fat person in America. 

One has to wonder how much extra money obese people are costing 
taxpayers anyways. Because a lot of those "costs to society" figures 
include things like the money that fat people pay for diets or their 
health care costs paid by their insurance. That is one thing that no 
one has mentioned here...just what are the risks of obesity. There are 
risks, I know that. I have read a lot that being over 100lbs overweight 
carries a risk of heart disease and diabetes and such. But how much of 
a risk? What are the odds of still being alive at 75 for people who are 
over a 100 lbs overweight compared to people who are either in the 
normal range or designated "overweight"  One of the main problems with 
obesity research that I can tell is that there isnt a lot of agreement 
about most things. I do know that a lot of the research is paid for by 
the people in the diet industry. That doesnt necessarily make it wrong 
but, imho, it means it should be looked at closely. 

FWIW, I also dont like where the road of "anything that might impact 
insurance rates becomes other people's business" leads. 

response 66 of 378:

Mar 6 22:45 UTC 2006

high fructose corn syrup is in a lot more than just drinks.  They should stop
putting it in all foods, and start turning it into fuel.

response 68 of 378:

Mar 6 23:35 UTC 2006

resp:65 The real question is if gastric bypass operations lead to
improved health. I have looked into it because it sure would be nice to
fit into society more. I mean, there are a lot of non-health related
reasons why being thin would be nice. But, even the initial risks have
put me off. 2% of people who have that surgery die within 30 days. A
number of people have long term side effects too. Some people lose too
much weight. Some people have symptoms of malnutrion. Still, I am
looking forward to reading a long term study about how the surgery
effects people's health. The few studies I have read suggest that for
some people it might be an appropriate choice but others get less
benefit. I think it really depends on the individual. 

resp:66 I have kind of decided that high fructose corn syrup is pretty
bad. It's being so common is an interesting thing though from a public
policy point of view. It has a lot to do with agricultural policy and
trade policy. Our government has tarrifs on imported cane sugar thus
making it more expensive while at the same time they have subsidies for
corn farmer which results in a corn surplus which makes high fructose
corn syrup much cheaper relative to cane sugar. I am not sure how sugar
beet sugar figured into all of that but really, it is quite interesting.
If I were still taking Econ classes, I would write a paper about it. 

resp:67 Have you any evidence that airplane seats have gotten wider in
the past 25 years or so? Because I dont think they have gotten wider at
all. But yes, as people have gotten bigger, it has caused the airlines
to have to purchase more fuel and that probably has resulted in higher
airline fares although how much higher I dont know. Maybe it is just a
buck or two per ticket. 

response 70 of 378:

Mar 6 23:45 UTC 2006

I think its par for the course to check out when someone gets an ice cream.
Its also pretty natural to look at people in public.  And if they're big fat
people..and they have ice cream..yea, its not uncommon to check them out too.
One of the places I check people out is at the grocery store.  Often, I'll
take a peak at someone's cart to see what they're getting and man if it isn't
just coincidence that the heavier folks tend to have alot of sugary cereal,
soda, chips, snacks, ice crea, and whatever.  If it makes me a bastard for
noticing stuff like that so be it.  None of my business is if they want to
eat ice cream with a bag over their head in the dark..but if they're next to
me on an elevator or standing in line at grocery checkout or heck even idling
at the stop light next to me in their minivan...its public.  I'm not going
to stare at my shoelaces everytime I leave my house.
Now, I wouldn't exactly point and moo at somebody but at the same time if Big
Bertha blocks my sun at the beach while wearing a thong then I'm not one of
those "oh, pretend the pink elephant is invisible" types.  
Society interacts.  Feedback is part of that. People stare.  Hell, I just got
off an elevator where some creepy guy stared at me the whole ride.  I smiled
and he didn't smile back.  It seems really rude but who knows..he didn't
assault me or anything.

response 72 of 378:

Mar 7 00:30 UTC 2006

resp:69 - Oh please tell me which airlines have spent so much money
increasing the size of their seats because I would really like to fly on
those airlines! Come on, are you really worried about private businesses
spending money in order to make seats wider? Why is it any business of
yours if a private business decides that they want to go after fat
people and their money by making things more comfortable for them. Never
mind that most people find wider seats more comfortable and get a
benefit from them that they may find worth the cost even if they are not
fat. 

resp:71 Obviously, since I have never been grocery shopping with you, I
cant speak for the contents of fat people's grocery carts in Seattle.
But,  I admit to checking out people's carts at the grocery store too
and I have not noticed any difference in the amount of unhealthy foods
in fat people's carts. The truth is that one or both of us is probably
looking at things selectively. People tend to be better able to process
information that fits with whatever worldview they happen to have. YOu
seem to think that all fat people have bad eating habits so you are more
 likely to notice when a fat person has bad things in their cart. I
think that you cant tell if a person eats a healthy diet based on their
weight so I might overlook bad things in the carts of my fellow fat
people. *shrug*. Anyways, it isnt looking that I was bitching about, it
was public shaming or any shaming really. I think it is wrong for people
to go around shaming other people for things like what they eat or how
fat their ass happens to be. 

resp:71 I thought gaining back some weight was considered very normal
wtih gastic bypass and is soemthing to be expected. A person might lose
a hundred pounds and then gain back thirty but that is still a net loss
of seventy pounds. I know that some people gain back all of the weight
but most people end up with a sustained weight loss. 

response 74 of 378:

Mar 7 01:25 UTC 2006

And I -- along with three-quarters of my family -- am sensitive (a stronger
word would be "allergic") to corn products. Corn is in just about *everything*.
"High fructose corn syrup," "corn syrup," "corn starch," "food starch
modified," "xanthan gum," etc. The fact that from-scratch food often tastes
better is just a bonus. :)

response 76 of 378:

Mar 7 02:32 UTC 2006

Xanthan gum is often from corn. (I trust my mother on this -- she did the
research long ago.) Anything that is artificially sweetened is likely to be
from corn -- I've heard that this is because sugar is artificially more
expensive.

response 78 of 378:

Mar 7 03:40 UTC 2006

resp:77 Fair enough. $275 million dollars extra a year sure sounds like
a lot, doesnt it? But I wonder how much that is per passenger? Since
that $275 million figure was from 2000, I tried to get a stat as close
to that as I could. What I got was pretty close and it says that around
2000 there were 600 million airline passengers. So that $275 million
dollars amounts to an additional cost of about 45 cents per passenger
per year. YIKES! FAT PEOPLE are costing everyone who flies a whopping
FORTY FIVE CENTS per year. THE HORROR. Clearly we must publicly shame
them at every opportunity. 


This is the site where I got that 600 million figure, btw. 
http://www.countryplace.com/cplace/Congress/Airline_Fairness.html

response 80 of 378:

Mar 7 06:09 UTC 2006

...except it's much, much cheaper to just buy two coach tickets (unless you
can upgrade with miles or something.)

response 82 of 378:

Mar 7 11:59 UTC 2006

Note that last sentence. Our experience has been that it generally comes from
corn plants and that residue does remain (from the effects).

response 84 of 378:

Mar 7 14:24 UTC 2006

Society decided it's society's business, due to insurance costs, to 
have laws about motorcycle helmets, seat belts, drunk driving, no-fault 
insurance, and smoking tobacco.  It's well established that, if it 
affects insurance costs, it's in the public interest.  I don't like it 
either but I see no reason why obesity should be exempt.  Americans 
like to tell other people what to do, and are constantly looking for 
any sort of excuse to justify doing so.