response 57 of 84:

Apr 4 01:27 UTC 2002

        Whyzat?

response 59 of 84:

Apr 4 03:56 UTC 2002

it should be noted reparative therapy is espoused generally by those 
who are dissatisfied with their attractions.. they may have exclusive 
attractions to the same sex, or they may not.  We aren't going to 
waste time with folks that are happy gay.  We weren't happy with the 
lifestyle, so..

I hate having to explain myself all over again =P

response 61 of 84:

Apr 4 08:15 UTC 2002

 ..or your faith is incompatible with you.

jazz .. the reason these groups hate me is because (in one instance in
particular) i am seen as a woman who 'fooled around' with one their 'members'
casually and with a genuine intention of getting to know her better etc
blahblah .. but because i had a boyfriend at the time, and because i am
generally close with men, and because i am not a
unfeminine-stereotypical-dyke-what-have-you they felt that i was your typical
'bi-femme-tease-bitch who didn't "fit" with their social mold and therefore
was unacceptable as a human being type situation. i dont really give a shit,
as i have no desire my individuality for that kind of crap.
i could cite other instances that have led me to feel this way.

response 63 of 84:

Apr 4 10:31 UTC 2002

resp:60 No, Jon, in this case, I think he should be free to voice his 
opinion and I don't feel threatened.  After all this *is* a public 
forum.

resp:58  
>Reparative derives from "repair." Julie, your speech is so full of
>justifications, it saddens me. You refer to homosexuality as a 
>bandaid for psychosocial problems. I didn't say that Reparation 
>Therapy was aimed at all gays, but I did say  That's what you said in 
>a lot more words while disagreeing with me.

Okay, it is true that the term "reparative" derives from the 
word "repair" meaning (according to Webster's Seventh New Collegiate 
Dictionary) "1a: To restore by replacing a part or putting together 
what is torn or broken: FIX b:to restore to a sound or healthy state: 
RENEW 2: To make good: REMEDY", which is basically what you said, I'm 
just clarifying.  Also, generally speaking, those of us that 
seek "reparative therapy" (hereinafter referred to as RT) tend to be 
those of us who believe that there is something fundamentally wrong 
with us, maybe not necessarily the homosexual behavior, but usually 
so.  

On the other hand, I interpreted your comment "it was people whose 
thinking is, 'I'm gay because I'm broken. Fix me.'" to mean that you 
thought that many of us who have sought RT were just a load of 
whiners.  I am most likely mistaken in this assessment due to  certain 
inherent problems in translation between communicating persons with 
differing opinions.  However, if that was, in fact, the case, I want 
to clarify that I in no way *expected* the world to "fix me".  I 
simply went in search of a personal solution.  If Homosexuality were 
something that required a "cure" or a specific "fix", then I wouldn't 
have had to do that, would I?  I will admit that I believed, and still 
believe, that there was a certain part of me that was damaged by my 
abuse and contributed to my eventual sexualization of the problem 
because I was too young at the time to really be able to understand 
how that part of me had been damaged or what sort of "repairs" were 
needed.  

So, in fact,I suppose I am agreeing with you.  Many of us are, in 
effect, saying "I'm gay because I'm broken,"  but I don't think any of 
us are saying "Fix me."  I think it is more like this "I have these 
gay feelings because of something about me that is broken or not 
functioning properly.  Teach me how I can fix it."

It wasn't my intention to "justify" anything.  I merely intended to 
state the facts.  I hope this clears things up a little.  If you have 
any other questions I can answer, I'll be happy to try to do so. 

Oh by the way.  I seem to recall a question regarding whether there 
was ever anyone seeking RT to be free of problems that made the 
heterosexual.  I haven't heard of any, but that doesn't necessarily 
mean that there *aren't* any.  Anything's possible.  After what I'vwe 
been through, I can certainly testify to that.

response 65 of 84:

Apr 4 15:38 UTC 2002

Julie, if your complaint is that my characterization of Exodus is that the
people who go there are passively and dependently asking Exodus to "fix them,"
rather than taking responsibility for their own "fixing" by reaching out for
help, ok, I'll accept that. I'll amend to "Exodus helps people who don't want
to be gay to not be gay."
 
Jon, on a different thread, get off it. Suggesting that Julie should be given
special treatment because she's pregnant, or that I should "cut her some
slack" (private email) because she's pregnant, is disempowering garbage. Julie
is an adult, she made the adult choice to get pregnant (IIRC, if not, she made
the adult choice to engage in acts that might make her pregnant, and the adult
choice to stay pregnant), I'm not going to put on kid gloves and start
treating her like a child. As she said, she can defend herself. Just because
you're LDS doesn't mean you have to act like Brigham Young.

response 67 of 84:

Apr 4 21:45 UTC 2002

        One thing, to bring these two threads together, that's always bugged
me is the way that some people don't seperate a sexual preference and a
lifestyle.  They really don't have anything to do with each other, other than
the fact that some groups seem to center around little in the way of common
interest except for a common sexual preference and a love for drama.

response 69 of 84:

Apr 5 23:57 UTC 2002

(I'm glad you said it Paul, I was just about to make fun of Julie for the same
thing, but (a) you got to it first, and (b) you're already in trouble for
picking on the soon to be parents. :)

response 71 of 84:

Apr 6 14:38 UTC 2002

        While reading through a book on the therapeutic techniques of Milton
Ericson, I noticed that, in almost every example of the great therapist's
work, he was deliberately acting as a normative, not just working with the
subject's problems, but also bringing them back in line with his percieved
notions of what a person should think and feel, and what their role in society
should be.  It troubled me, and it still troubles me.

        I'd also like to state that the idea that, if you are bisexual, that
you can and should have one partner of each gender, isn't necessarily a part
and parcel of bisexuality.  I can't see how it's any different than a
heterosexual or homosexual who prefers, say, blondes and brunettes,
rationalizing that they should then have one partner of each gender.  If
you've got an arranged polygamous relationship, or you're not in a committed
relationship, then you are of course free to do as you've negotiated, or as
you will.  But if you go introducing the idea of bi privilege into a committed
relationship, don't be surprised if it has negative effects, and don't blame
bisexuality for it.

response 73 of 84:

Apr 6 17:22 UTC 2002

jazz:  hmm.  Maybe I need to have this "bi privilege" thing defined 
for me because I don't recall ever saying I was claiming it.

response 75 of 84:

Apr 6 18:25 UTC 2002

oh hey, she can have a freind, as long as i'm the male partner for both

response 77 of 84:

Apr 6 22:53 UTC 2002

menage a trois?

response 79 of 84:

Apr 6 23:50 UTC 2002

yea, it's easy to find a dynamic of 3 that's comfortable for everyone.

response 81 of 84:

Apr 7 04:25 UTC 2002

Um, no.  I didn't want a threesome.  I wanted to watch and/or take pictures.
That does not mean "threesome".  It means watch.

      :)