response 53 of 122:

Dec 12 21:34 UTC 2003

John, TBH, NextGrex looks to me to be moving along at least as fast as
previous upgrades have.  It really feels to me like you're carping, not
because you're saying that it should go faster, but because you keep saying
it over & over & over.

Volunteer time is always a bottleneck.  Trying to run a system, including
upgrades & maintenance, on the basis of consensus rather than in a top-down
manager-to-managed structure adds to the problem.

Frankly, if I were on staff & were one of those trying to move ahead on
this, I'd be resenting the sheer time taken up reading the responses of a
few individuals who apparently have endless time and nothing of importance
(IMNAAHO) to say. Heck, I do resent it as it is, & I'm not even seeing most
of their postings, I think.  (No, you're not one of those I'm referring to;
my first paragraph above isn't meant to say that I think you're in the twit
category.  If it sounds to you like that, email me & I'll try to be clearer.)

response 55 of 122:

Dec 13 03:08 UTC 2003

re resp:53: Sorry if you don't think I should speak up.  But not sorry 
enough to shut up.  If there are X people who think I shouldn't say 
what's on my mind, then there are X people who's opinion I don't care 
about.

I think there are many who disagree with me, but I think there are 
some who agree, too -- however graceless they might think me for 
saying it as bluntly as I did.

Look, I like Grex a whole lot.  I have read the statements from the 
treasurer over the last couple of years, as Grex went from 100 
supporters and a growing bank account to 80 supporters and a shrinking 
bank account.  Why do you think that is?  I have an idea that explains 
at least part of it.  I get frustrated when I wait for the system to 
do the next thing; go to the next conference or finish entering an 
item or whatever.  So must others.

Those users who left aren't going to come back, and the next dozen who 
leave aren't coming back, and it won't be long before Grex is where M-
Net is now.  (If there are 10 supporting users on M-Net, I'm 
surprised.)  Or where the old Arbornet was before that (there were 4 
users of Arbornet when it merged with M-Net).  I don't think the 
MextGrex hardware is depreciating as quickly as is Grex itself.

I want NextGrex for myself.  I want it because I think it's cool to 
think of Grex moving onto something a little less obsolete.  It's new, 
different, and exciting.  But there *is* a bigger picture as well.

response 57 of 122:

Dec 13 13:10 UTC 2003

Dan, that's a generous offer.  Please run it by staff, soon.

response 59 of 122:

Dec 13 22:24 UTC 2003

Regarding #57; I assume all the staff who want to participate are reading
this.

response 61 of 122:

Dec 14 01:34 UTC 2003

re resp:58:  Do you know how long we went between *mentions* of 
NextGrex in the coop conference?  We went from July to October, when I 
brought up the subject again.  And the mentions in June and July 
weren't substantive, as I recall them.

Constructive?  I don't have any attaboys, no.

I think we should listen more to cross, if he'll come back to the 
staff at all.  I think we need to go with stock Unix, not customized 
code only a couple of people can administer -- because those couple of 
people haven't been available for a while.

I think Grex shouldn't be allowed to wither on the vine because of 
overdependence on people who aren't interested in it any more.

Do *you* have *anything* to contribute?  Or just "Shut up, jep"?

re 59-60: I suspect it's a matter of definition of "want to 
participate".

response 65 of 122:

Dec 14 04:53 UTC 2003

BOOM
 NextGreX

response 67 of 122:

Dec 14 16:07 UTC 2003

Re resp:61: I didn't ask for "attaboys".  I asked for constructive
comments, i.e. ones that include suggestions for how to move forward. 
"That damn volunteer staff is lazy" seems to be your only comment so
far, and it's not constructive or helpful.

response 69 of 122:

Dec 14 21:17 UTC 2003

Regarding #60; Fair enough, Joe; can you help me spread the word?  The
critical people to get hold of right now are Jan and Valerie, since the
hardware is physically in their possession.

response 71 of 122:

Dec 15 05:47 UTC 2003

I guess I disagree with davel and gull in that I think there are valid 
reasons to complain.  Maybe you fellows will come up with a schedule 
under which I may complain again with your permission?  I inquired in 
October and was told "wait a month".  I waited two months before 
complaining.

I don't have the time or expertise needed to make NextGrex.  That is 
why I never said I'd do it.

Dan Cross has stated the project can be simplified to the point where 
any Unix system administrator could understand it, instead of only one 
person, by eliminating weird custom password code and suchlike.  I 
endorse that concept.  Grex will be a lot more secure with standard 
Unix software than it ever will when relying on one person.

While I don't have the expertise to build NextGrex, I do have Unix 
knowledge and ability which could conceivably help.  I was on the 
staff of M-Net for several years.  I am the Unix root at work on some 
machines, though for maintenance purposes only.  I'm the go-to guy in 
customer support for Unix information.  I'm willing to help out Grex 
and/or NextGrex where I can.  I won't be designing any software but 
there are times when I could log in and test things, or clean up after 
busier and more expert people, etc.  I'm pretty good at 
documentation.  I don't expect the staff to take me up on it, but if 
they do, I'll help out where I can.

If it counts at all toward your definition of "helping", davel, I also 
contributed money to the new hardware project a year ago.  I really 
don't regard myself as destructively jeering.  

response 73 of 122:

Dec 15 23:02 UTC 2003

I don't think it's very practical.  It's a noble gesture, to be sure, but
realistically grex isn't going to be able to afford much time from anyone.
What I think is realistic, and necessary, is to get an operating system
loaded onto the hardware we have that's *stable* and get the hardware into
the pumpkin.  After that, most of the work with getting nextgrex running
is really just turning the crank.