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Grex > Coop11 > #110: Cyberspace Communications finances for June, 1999 |  |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 78 responses total. |
richard
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response 52 of 78:
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Jul 12 23:23 UTC 1999 |
the grex store should get set up to take credit card purchases, so it
can take orders directly over the 'net. Then it could sell a lot more
t-shirts and get into other things like coffee mugs (werent grex coffee
mugs sold in the past?)
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dpc
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response 53 of 78:
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Jul 13 14:13 UTC 1999 |
FWIW, M-Net (Arbornet) just made a net gain for the fiscal year
closing June 30. Maybe M-Net has turned the financial corner.
I also don't see the point in setting up a new Grex system anywyere.
Dialin access is going the way of the mastadon, and people can
telnet here or come in from the Web regardless of their location.
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orinoco
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response 54 of 78:
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Jul 13 14:22 UTC 1999 |
Dialin access is only going the way of the mastadon because large numbers of
people use systems they _can't_ dial in to. Dialling in to Grex is much more
convenient that telnetting if you happen to be local (no wait, less lag,
etc.)
I agree that grex doesn't need any more A2 dialin lines, since the existing
ones are never busy. Dialin lines in other area codes sounds like an
interesting experiment.
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danr
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response 55 of 78:
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Jul 13 16:15 UTC 1999 |
That's not necessarily true. I'm in Ann Arbor, and haven't dialed in for more
than a year. You can easily conference via BackTalk, and if you're not into
party, there's no reason to dial in.
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jazz
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response 56 of 78:
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Jul 13 18:06 UTC 1999 |
Allright, I'll concede to the objection over my use of the term
"commercial" - there, outside of t-shirts and mugs and the like, is no strict
relationship between the services offered and the funds donated.
As a financial entity, though, it's my understanding that GREX survives
largely in part due to the contributions of a handfull of core folks, most
of whom have been here since the system's inception. My point was that in
order to make a sister system work, we'd require a likewise skilled group of
people willing to donate a great deal of time and money over the years, or
the sister system would not be viable.
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aruba
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response 57 of 78:
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Jul 13 18:44 UTC 1999 |
I think your conclusion is correct, though your premise is not, I think -
but like I said, I'd have to do some number crunching to show how much our
membership turns over.
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krj
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response 58 of 78:
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Jul 13 19:25 UTC 1999 |
Jazz in resp:56 :: "As a financial entity, though, it's my understanding
that GREX survives largely due to the contributions of a handfull of
core folks, most of whom have been here since the system's inception."
This sounds like the "Grex runs on a few deep pockets" theory which
I feel like I have to keep beating down. resp:0 lists 91
current members, and 91 x $60 per year yields $5460, which is most
of Grex's operating budget. The auction generated over $1500
this year which should cover the shortfall.
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aruba
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response 59 of 78:
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Jul 13 20:18 UTC 1999 |
What Ken said.
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cmcgee
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response 60 of 78:
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Jul 13 21:23 UTC 1999 |
Web based access doesn't allow me to see my email. I have a hard time when
I'm out of town keeping up with my email. A couple weeks ago I resorted to
Kinkos, and paid them $3 to telnet over to Grex.
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richard
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response 61 of 78:
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Jul 13 21:58 UTC 1999 |
and remember that once, not too long ago, mnet had twice as much money
as grex has right now, and went through almost all of it in a period of
maybe 15 months
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mary
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response 62 of 78:
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Jul 13 22:35 UTC 1999 |
I'm local and I very very infrequently telnet in or use Backtalk.
I dial in. I find Backtalk cumbersome compared to a command line
interface. Please (whomever) don't assume everyone is just like
you.
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tpryan
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response 63 of 78:
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Jul 14 01:27 UTC 1999 |
I dial in. If I had acces to full color internet and all that stuff
out there, I don't think I would Grex as much.
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aruba
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response 64 of 78:
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Jul 14 02:07 UTC 1999 |
Richard's warning in #61 is one we should keep in mind, I think. But there's
no harm in talking about things.
I think helping to start another system like Grex would be a lot like having
children. You might say, why have children, when they won't be as capable as
us adults? Well, I guess it's a biological imperative.
I think we have a pretty good thing going, and I'd like to share it with other
people in other places. I know we already do that, but for me the fact
that Grex is in the same city I am is important to me. I think the chances
of my getting this involved with a system that was elsewhere are near zero.
I like the fact that I can meet Grexers ftf, I guess. That makes a big
difference. And I like feeling that I'm close to the action.
Those are just my personal biases, but based on them I think that a system
in another city would attract people that Grex couldn't, just because of
geography.
I also take seriously our role as a protector of free speech and as a charity.
Sometimes I think that if we don't get the word out to more people that the
Internet is more than just a library, and more than just a place where you
read things, then sooner or later that role will be legislated into it by
people who are afraid of what it might become. I'd love to see lots of Grexes
all over the world, to the point where everyone knew someone who participated
in one. Then politicians would no more dare to shut us down than they would
the DAR.
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jazz
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response 65 of 78:
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Jul 14 12:46 UTC 1999 |
Ken, you omitted my words "in part" in reference to the deep pockets
theory; I'm saying I didn't think that GREX could meet it's bills regularly
without that core group. If that's incorrect, then I'll concede.
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dpc
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response 66 of 78:
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Jul 14 18:23 UTC 1999 |
M-Net spent several thousand dollars on new equipment in 93-96,
which reduced our bank balance considerably. 8-)
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mdw
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response 67 of 78:
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Jul 15 11:28 UTC 1999 |
Grex relied on the "deep pockets" theory to start up. This lasted less
than a year, as I recollect. The "deep" pockets were various founders,
who basically guaranteed that various things, like phone lines and such,
would "get paid" no matter what - if membership fees didn't cover it,
they would. Most of the expenses were really quite small - I don't
think we were paying rent at the start, and the equipment was mostly
donated. So the kinds of expenses the "deep" pockets incurred were much
more on the line of an extra magazine subscription, a ticket to see a
movie, or a minor auto repair, than anything that would have required a
2nd mortgage on the house, or aroused the interest of a bank inspector.
I don't believe grex has ever relied on deep pockets for any operating
expenses since. The only time grex has needed "deep" pockets has been
for capital upgrades, and I believe all of those have been well
documented online.
We certainly have plenty of members who don't say much, and several
vocal non-paying people who participate here in coop. But I think all
of the people that I can think of who could possibly claim to be a "deep
pocket" for grex have been deeply involved in discussions here in coop.
There isn't a "them" that's really paying for grex, there's only "us".
Most of this is really pretty obvious if you look at the budget reports,
who responds here, and the list of members.
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other
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response 68 of 78:
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Jul 15 12:42 UTC 1999 |
Some of us are shallow pockets, but deep voices... ;-)
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davel
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response 69 of 78:
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Jul 19 13:14 UTC 1999 |
The deep-pockets method of operation lasted rather more than a year. I didn't
happen on Grex during its first year. When I did, I went to board meetings
fairly regularly for a while, & several times over those months saw board
members - faced with budget shortfall - reach into those pockets.
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lilmo
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response 70 of 78:
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Jul 23 15:55 UTC 1999 |
re resp:68 - Heh. :-)
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saw
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response 71 of 78:
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Jul 25 02:04 UTC 1999 |
I don't know if/how this would work for Grex, it probably won't,
but I thought I'd throw the idea on the floor to be kicked around a bit.
http://www.megapop.net/
Basically, it's a company who has established POPs around the
country (in alot of major cities) and allow you to dial in from any one of
those places. It's mainly for ISPs who want to increase their coverage
area, but I thought I'd throw it out for some more intelligent minds to
look at.
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don
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response 72 of 78:
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Jul 28 01:35 UTC 1999 |
It should be noted that GREX isn't going to be in as much black in the
future; the tax credits are about to be used up, and the $300/mo phone
lines will outweigh the $130/mo that's coming in now. So the expansion
plans might not work too well.
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janc
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response 73 of 78:
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Jul 28 03:15 UTC 1999 |
Where do you get $130 a month? I think the average is more like $600 a
month.
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bru
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response 74 of 78:
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Jul 28 18:37 UTC 1999 |
Megapop doesn't give those lines out for free.
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krj
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response 75 of 78:
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Aug 10 07:03 UTC 1999 |
regarding the idea of Grex running out-of-area dialins: I just had
a small fantasy about doing this for the Cleveland Free-net
refugees. I'm sure it's beyond our capabilities, especially since
we'd want to do it in the next six weeks.
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janc
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response 76 of 78:
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Aug 10 16:34 UTC 1999 |
If there were someone there who was interested being the driving force
behind setting up the modems and internet link, I don't see why it
couldn't be done in six weeks.
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