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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 170 responses total. |
jep
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response 50 of 170:
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Jul 2 19:48 UTC 2002 |
Thanks!
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russ
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response 51 of 170:
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Jul 3 03:44 UTC 2002 |
Re #45: Try searching csicop.org. Unfortunately all of my back
issues of Skeptical Inquirer are buried pretty deeply (dead trees
are nice for reading, lousy for searching).
Re #48: If you look at the claims for EMDR and the claims once
made for snake oil, they sound eerily similar. Probably for good
reason, too.
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jaklumen
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response 52 of 170:
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Jul 4 13:10 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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jaklumen
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response 53 of 170:
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Jul 4 13:14 UTC 2002 |
((inferno item #7 <----------> recovery item #21))
see also item:19
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jazz
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response 54 of 170:
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Jul 5 20:13 UTC 2002 |
There's no real basis in snake oil - outside of the placebo effect -
and EMDR has a real basis, though it doesn't follow most of the research I've
read in the field, in eye positioning based on emotional states combined with
creating physiological states to influence psychological ones. Insofar as
I can tell, both phenomena are real, and therefore EMDR may have some basis
in fact.
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md
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response 55 of 170:
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Jul 7 14:13 UTC 2002 |
from http://www.quackwatch.com/
Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR)
EMDR is promoted for the treatment of post-traumatic stress, phobias,
learning disorders, and many other mental and emotional problems. The
method involves asking the client to recall the traumatic event as
vividly as possible and rate certain feelings before and after visually
tracking the therapist's finger as it is moved back and forth in front
of the client's eyes [6]. EMDR's developer and leading proponent,
Francine Shapiro, Ph.D., received her doctoral degree in 1988 and
established the EMDR Institute to train mental health professionals.
She and her associates have trained more than 22,000 clinicians
worldwide in workshops that in 1997 cost $385 [7]. EMDR resembles
various traditional behavioral therapies for reducing fears in that it
requires clients to imagine traumatic events in a gradual fashion in
the presence of a supportive therapist. However, controlled research
has shown that EMDR's most distinctive feature (visual tracking) is
unnecessary and is irrelevant to whatever benefits the patient may
receive [8]. Recent reviews have concluded that the data claimed to
support EMDR derive mostly from uncontrolled case reports and poorly
designed controlled experiments and that the theory of EMDR clashes
with scientific knowledge of the role of eye movements [9,10].
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jep
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response 56 of 170:
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Jul 8 01:09 UTC 2002 |
re #55: I've read that type of comment about EMDR, but the comment
doesn't address whether it works or not. My therapist claims it does
work. However, I think he's giving up on trying it on me at least to
help with my biggest problem -- anger over my divorce -- since I think
my anger is appropriate and not something that needs to be cured.
So, those who were concerned (from the divorce item) that I was going
for some quack therapy can relax about that. I at least have not tried
it yet.
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jep
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response 57 of 170:
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Jul 8 10:42 UTC 2002 |
There's another article in USA Today, questioning the value of
antidepressants.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/healthscience/health/drugs/2002-07-08-
antidepressants.htm
The article says tests show they work only 18% better than placebos,
which I expect means they helped 18% of people.
Maybe I'm lucky, but I believe my Zoloft prescription is helping me a
lot with my depression. It hasn't cured everything, but it's given me
a break from hopeless despair to a much more normal state of mind.
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mary
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response 58 of 170:
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Jul 8 10:58 UTC 2002 |
Some of the best and most powerful treatments out there
work because of the placebo effect. So your 18% is probably
far too low an estimate.
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cmcgee
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response 59 of 170:
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Jul 8 11:16 UTC 2002 |
As I recall, placebos work pretty well for depression, so wouldn't that
mean antidepressants work pretty-well+18% ?
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jep
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response 60 of 170:
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Jul 8 13:52 UTC 2002 |
I can believe my own positive effects were a placebo effect, or at
least partly so. I got even more depressed when it looked like it was
going to be a month or two before I could see the psychiatrist who was
to prescribe something for me. I felt a lot of hope once I got the
prescription, and had one terrible day when I forgot to take it, not
long after I'd started. Then I gradually but steadily started feeling
less inescapably down. All of that could as easily be a placebo effect
as a real medical improvement.
I don't care what helped me, though. I've felt a lot better since
taking the Zoloft than I did before that.
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orinoco
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response 61 of 170:
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Jul 8 15:12 UTC 2002 |
There's a variation on the placebo effect -- unfortunately, I don't remember
what it's called -- that might be relevant too. I seem to remember hearing
that a placebo with some tangible but irrelevant effect -- a caffeine pill,
say -- will work better than a totally inactive placebo.
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lynne
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response 62 of 170:
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Jul 8 16:03 UTC 2002 |
I too have found that the Zoloft has helped enormously; however I can still
sense the underlying habits of thought that caused the problems in the first
place. Man shall not live by drugs alone...or something.
I'm actually finding it enormously difficult to remain semi-organized since
starting on the medication. I'm quite sure it's related. Normally I often
need to reach a certain state of agitation about something in order to get
off my butt and go take care of it; since starting zoloft my reaction to
nearly everything is along the lines of "aaah, who cares." Perspective, but
at what cost?
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slynne
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response 63 of 170:
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Jul 8 16:33 UTC 2002 |
I took Zoloft for 6 months. I found that it helped me quite a lot. It
doesnt matter to me if it was a placebo effect or not.
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brighn
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response 64 of 170:
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Jul 8 17:16 UTC 2002 |
#62> that sounds like my reaction to Paxil. I was still Socially Anxious, but
I didn't care anymore. I still sat on my butt on the couch constantly, but
it didn't depress me, and I was content with that. If I hadn't had the
(substantial) physical side effects, I might still be on Paxil, to my own
significant detriment.
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anderyn
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response 65 of 170:
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Jul 8 17:27 UTC 2002 |
I've been on Zoloft for eight years now. It helps. I have been told that
I'll be on it forever, since for me it's more of a maintenance thing than
not. I have a chronic chemical depression which doesn't react well to
therapy or to muich of anything except the anti-depressants. I have noticed
that I can function much better with it than I ever did without it, and
since my mother's family has had similar long-term depression (both my
grandmother and mother for sure, and most of the other female relatives)
I am pretty sure it's genetic and not something I can just "snap out of" or
deal with without my Zoloft.
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oval
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response 66 of 170:
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Jul 8 17:36 UTC 2002 |
apathy pills
i found that taking apathy pills helped me not be depressed, but i hated the
feeling of being apathetic. i also felt like i couldn't concentrate on
something for very long. i also don't like being around people who take apathy
pills. the people i know who take them are generally just as neurotic, they
just don;t know it. or don't care.
cocaine has a similar effect, only it makes you a real asshole - but it's
okay, because you'll think "ahh, who cares".
i apologize to those whom i may have offended.
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jp2
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response 67 of 170:
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Jul 8 17:38 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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brighn
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response 68 of 170:
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Jul 8 17:51 UTC 2002 |
Yeah. Whatever.
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jep
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response 69 of 170:
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Jul 8 17:54 UTC 2002 |
One side effect the Zoloft has had on me, which would be a major
detriment to most people, is the loss of my sex drive. I probably have
an erection about 1 time per week these days. That's a fair amount
less than before I started taking the prescription, though I was never
the most sexual man anyway.
As it is, this isn't much of a disadavantage to me. I don't want to
date right now anyway, and don't expect I will until quite a while
after the divorce is finalized.
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edina
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response 70 of 170:
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Jul 8 18:28 UTC 2002 |
Loss of sex drive would depress me.
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oval
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response 71 of 170:
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Jul 8 18:43 UTC 2002 |
heh yea .. even if i didn't want to date.
lol@#67
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jep
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response 72 of 170:
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Jul 8 19:07 UTC 2002 |
Loss of sex drive is not enjoyable, but when you're celibate anyway,
it's dispensable. I'd probably be even less happy if I had any sex
drive, under the circumstances.
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lynne
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response 73 of 170:
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Jul 8 19:46 UTC 2002 |
The psychiatrist was very concerned that I let her know if I should experience
loss of sex drive as a side effect (I haven't). I *am* still capable of
being excited or enthusiastic about things, but it takes more energy to get
over the initial who-cares activation energy hump thingy. The biggest side
effect I've noticed is being almost perpetually sleepy. I used to sleep 7-8
hours a night, these days I want about 10 hours and then I still have an
overwhelming urge to nap in the afternoon.
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jep
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response 74 of 170:
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Jul 8 21:04 UTC 2002 |
I told my psychiatrist right from the start that I could tolerate the
loss of my sex drive, given that I'm going through divorce anyway. He
hasn't ever asked me about it, and was not interested when I mentioned
it to him once.
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