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Grex > Coop8 > #131: Nominations for the Board of Directors |  |
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| 25 new of 246 responses total. |
kerouac
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response 50 of 246:
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Nov 2 21:18 UTC 1996 |
Actually the bylaws specifically defines "cyberspace inc." and "grex"
as separate entities, one being the computer conferencing system and one
being the organization that runs it. Membership in Cyberspace Inc. is
defined as paying dues .etc But membership in Grex is not defined.
The only references to "members" are that any "member of grex" may
run for the Board and any "member of grex" may make a motion. Since
the bylaws do not specifically and explicitly say that you have to
be a member of Cyberspace Inc. to run for the Board, non-members
cantbe excluded from running.
All the bylaws say is you have to be a "member of grex" and since
the bylaws dont define what that means, you can only go by the
logical definition:
member of grex= grexer = anyone who has a grex login id and address.
The bylaws are defined as they are written. The intentions of the
authors of the bylaws cannot be assumed by every user that comes along.
Even if it was the "intent" to define member of grex as "member of
cyberspace inc.", it doesnt say that. So therefore it is not the case.
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ajax
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response 51 of 246:
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Nov 2 21:41 UTC 1996 |
Eskarina, specifically, read item 2 to see the bylaws. (Type q at the
"Respond or Pass?" prompt, then type "r 2" at the "Ok:" prompt.)
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popcorn
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response 52 of 246:
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Nov 2 22:16 UTC 1996 |
Richard, "Cyberspace, Inc." is somebody else. Grex is "Cyberspace
Communications, Inc.".
The intent of the bylaws is indeed that the terms "member of Grex" and "member
of cyberspace communications, Inc." are exactly the same thing.
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mta
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response 53 of 246:
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Nov 2 22:21 UTC 1996 |
This brings up a good point, though. Perhaps we should fix the typo in the
bylaws while we still remember what we meant...
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robh
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response 54 of 246:
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Nov 2 23:37 UTC 1996 |
Yes, good idea. Otherwise kerouac will hound us to our graves...
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remmers
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response 55 of 246:
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Nov 3 02:00 UTC 1996 |
That's neither a necessary nor sufficient reason for changing
the bylaws.
By the way, there's a clearly spelled-out procedure in the
bylaws for making amendments. Any member can propose one.
If you think something should be changed, by all means
propose it in an item.
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kerouac
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response 56 of 246:
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Nov 3 03:24 UTC 1996 |
I think its necessary. Anyone could logically assume that
"member of grex" means "member of grex community" In most
corporations, you dont *have* to be a stockholder to run for
the board of directors but it usually helps your chance of
getting picked if you do.
And anyway, so long as only members can vote, I dont see
whythere should be objection to letting non-members run for
the Board.
And until the bylaws are changed, it appears to be
permissable. One non-member has already expressed interest
and placed her name in nomination. I'd say that the Board
doesnt have the right to deny her a place on the ballot as the
bylaws are currently written. Give her a chance.
As a matter of fact, I nominate Selena! I think she'd be
afine board member (she'd at least give the rest of the board
hell)
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robh
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response 57 of 246:
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Nov 3 04:17 UTC 1996 |
Yah, but what are the odds she'd show up for a FTF meeting?
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qt314
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response 58 of 246:
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Nov 3 05:18 UTC 1996 |
Sorry that it has taken me so long to respond. I usually do not read Co-op,
as I normally do not comprehend that much about computers. =) Having said
this,.... I greatly appreciate Bruin's nomination of me; however, I feel tha
tit is in the best interest of all that I not run for President of the USA
at this time. Please note that I am NOT a crook! ;) <giggle>
Chaz notified me of this today. ;)
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rcurl
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response 59 of 246:
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Nov 3 07:01 UTC 1996 |
kerouac, read the relevant state law. Since we are a membership based
corporation, the meaning of "member" is defined in state law, and we have
therefrom the power to define its requirements and privileges. This is
done in Article 2 of the bylaws. There is only one category of member.
(Incidentally, no corporation is required to repeat state law in their
articles and bylaws - it applies implicitly.)
I think I recall that the board decided to register "Grex" as a DBA, to
protect it. Did we? If we did, then CCI and Grex are interchangeable.
However if we didn't, it is only a clerical error, not a legal error, that
the clause "of Grex" appears after "member" in a couple of instances.
"Member" has only one meaning because of Article 2 of the bylaws. It would
not hurt to fix the clerical error, but since it has no effect upon
anything, there is no imperative to do so. The time would be spent better
getting our Grex DBA (if we don't have it).
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eskarina
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response 60 of 246:
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Nov 3 07:09 UTC 1996 |
Excuse my ignorance... what's a DBA?
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scg
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response 61 of 246:
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Nov 3 07:40 UTC 1996 |
"Doing Business As." If a person or corporation wants to use a different name
than their legal name, they have to get a DBA so that people will still be
able to figure out who they are.
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robh
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response 62 of 246:
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Nov 3 07:43 UTC 1996 |
And yes, Cyberspace Communications, Inc. does have "Grex" as a DBA.
Thanks for clarifying, rcurl.
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tsty
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response 63 of 246:
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Nov 3 08:45 UTC 1996 |
hmmmmmmmmm, that would be an interesting way to get me to become a
member again - elect tsty to the board.
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kerouac
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response 64 of 246:
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Nov 3 18:18 UTC 1996 |
Article2 in thebylaws defines a member of cyberspace
communications inc., as state law allows to be done. But
the other references in the bylaws are to "member of
grex" which is not defined. The fact remains that
cyberspace communications and Grex are two separate
things and that nowhere in the bylaws does it say that
membership in one equates to membership in the other.
And even if they did, the bylaws still dont say one must
be a member of cyberspace communications to run for the
board.
This may be a clerical error, but I assure you that its
legally indefensible. A non-member of cyberspace inc.,
has nominated herself to run for the board. Since the
bylaws dont specifically say she cant, she has a case.
Amend the bylaws but in the mean time let her and Selena
and any other nominated non-member run. Its only fair.
I also nominate TSTY. The more the merrier!
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popcorn
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response 65 of 246:
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Nov 3 19:15 UTC 1996 |
Robh -- As far as I know, Cyberspace Communications, Inc., does *not* have
Grex as a DBA.
Could we go back to nominating people for the board here? If folks want to
debate the meaning of "Grex member" with Richard, I invite Richard (or any
other interested party) to start a new item for it.
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davel
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response 66 of 246:
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Nov 3 21:37 UTC 1996 |
<SIGH> *Don't* encourage him, Valerie!
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robh
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response 67 of 246:
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Nov 4 02:39 UTC 1996 |
Re 65 - I remember it being discussed at a Board meeting back in 1993
or so, and someone (danr?) said that it was. Time to scan the old
minutes...
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marlo
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response 68 of 246:
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Nov 4 11:51 UTC 1996 |
I am very sorry if I caused any confusion. I can not be a board member first
because you guys said I am not a member and second because I do not live in
Michigan I live in Illinois. Sorry for the confusion I just thought it would
be a change rather than the same people like robh (No offense robh). Sorry
and Happy Halloween.
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scott
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response 69 of 246:
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Nov 4 12:09 UTC 1996 |
Well, you *could* be a Board member from Illinois, but since montly Board
meetings are held in person, it would be very inconvenient for you.
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adbarr
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response 70 of 246:
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Nov 4 12:51 UTC 1996 |
If Cyberspace Communications, Inc. has not registered "Grex" it should. I
would think the best route is to file an Assumed Name with the Dept. of
Commerce - $10 I think. It is about equivalent to d/b/a but is the statutory
method for corporations. Unincorporated entities can register fictitious names
with county clerks.
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robh
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response 71 of 246:
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Nov 4 15:41 UTC 1996 |
Re 68 - Hey, I'm not even running this time! >8) Besides, I've
only been on the Board for less than a year, and I actually lost
the first election I was in. (5th out of 7 candidates.) I'm curious
why I'm perceived as the guy who's been on the Board forever...
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kerouac
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response 72 of 246:
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Nov 4 16:57 UTC 1996 |
It should register the grex name, and it should accept the loophole in the
bylaws and let non-members run until it is fixed.
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janc
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response 73 of 246:
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Nov 4 17:25 UTC 1996 |
Legalistic jiggery about the placement of commas is not what Grex is about.
Everyone knows what the bylaws were intended to mean. This is not Arbornet,
where they make a big distinction between "Arbornet" and "M-Net". So far as
we are concerned "Grex" and "Cyberspace Communications, Inc" are the same
danged thing. Yes, technically "Grex" is the name of a particular computer
run by Cyberspace Communications, but since it's impossible to be a member
of a computer, the only possible interpretation of that rule is that it means
the same thing as a member of CCI. If it doesn't mean that, then I'd be
interested to know what Richard thinks it *does* mean?
This is pure stupid obstructionism, trying to distract from doing business
by raising moronic, meaningless and trivial issues and hanging on to them
like a bulldog with a bone. Suppose we took the time to reword the bylaws
so they say more exactly what anybody can tell they already say. What would
Grex gain as a result of the time spent doing this? Do you honestly believe
that the board and users should be spending their time and energy on this
kind of nit-picky issue? We're here to do a job, and there are important
and difficult problems to be discussed and resolved: should we get a T1
connection, how can we raise money more effectively, etc. Are you seriously
proposing that we set all that stuff on the back burner while we go through
the bylaws deciding where it should say "CCI" and where it should say "Grex?"
I wish just once you'd stop listening to the sound of your own voice and pay
some attention to what we are trying to do here, which is to try to form
a consensus on serious issues effecting the future of Grex. This is not
an adversarial political system like the ones you see in Washington. If
you are incapable of listening to other people and adjusting your positions
toward possible compromises, then you are incapable of participating in any
constructive form in this conference.
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kerouac
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response 74 of 246:
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Nov 4 18:08 UTC 1996 |
Jan, its not nitpicking. It is these sort of loopholes that can bring an
organization down/. Grex is not a computer. It is not the hardware. It is
defined in thebylaws as a computer conferencing system, and a "memnber
of grex" can only mean a "user of that computaer conferencingsystem"
One day someone willuse that loophole to try to take over or hurt grex, and
it will be the fault of people like Janc, who wont look at something that
obviosly needs tobe changed and simply *change* it. You act like
changing a few words is the hardest thing in the world.
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