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Grex > Coop8 > #111: Mail issues in a Backtalk world | |
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| Author |
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| 25 new of 90 responses total. |
adbarr
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response 50 of 90:
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Sep 28 01:46 UTC 1996 |
Admitedly I have read this item in haste after a significant time being away
from grex, so I may not understand the intracacies as I should, but --
is this a hardware / bandwidth problem -- ie a money problem, or is this
a policy problem? The first can be solved. The second is more difficult.
I would like to see Grex provide the POP connections kerouac has suggested.
If it is money/hardware/bandwidth then talk to me. If it is policy then
tell me the policy.
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draven
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response 51 of 90:
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Sep 28 02:27 UTC 1996 |
Both, actually. Grex has a policy banning POP mail because it doesn't
have the resources required to maintain it.
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popcorn
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response 52 of 90:
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Sep 28 13:53 UTC 1996 |
(Arnold -- welcome back!!)
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srw
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response 53 of 90:
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Sep 29 17:13 UTC 1996 |
Our policy against offering POP is based on the assumption that it would
attract users looking for free services on the internet. There are
approximately an infinite number of such users, and no reason to disbelieve
the assumption.
If we had an infinite supply of bandwidth, I am guessing that POP would be
less of a problem, but I am still not convinced that Grex would wish to act
as a free mailserver to the internet. It takes staff time to support several
thousand additional users. (It may add many more users than that, too.)
If this putative infinite supply of bandwidth were something we had paid for,
we might want to consider charging for POP, as a way to be able to afford it.
This might not be the strategy we'd want to adopt for other reasons, though.
If the infinite supply of bandwith were partially donated, the donor might care
what kind of services we put it to, and internet-wide POP might not be what
they would like to see. This is all speculative, of course.
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robh
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response 54 of 90:
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Sep 29 19:39 UTC 1996 |
Serving an infinite numbers of free POP users would be no problem,
assuming we not only had infinite bandwidth, but infinite staff members
to handle questions. We don't have either, sadly.
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russ
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response 55 of 90:
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Sep 30 05:24 UTC 1996 |
Don't forget infinite disk space to handle the infinite e-mail being
ferried over the infinite bandwidth. :p
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kerouac
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response 56 of 90:
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Sep 30 14:42 UTC 1996 |
But grex already gets plentyof users who are only here for the free
internet services. If you go by that rationale, Grex shouldnt be offering
free regular email either? Is that what most ofyou feel?
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adbarr
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response 57 of 90:
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Sep 30 14:50 UTC 1996 |
If we had a number of users = (inifinity -1) and if we could get a small
percentage of that number to contribute -- what would be possible? I see this
as an opportunity not a problem -- well a problem in the effort to meet the
opportunity, perhaps, but only that. If there truly is the incredible demand
for "free" (read "extremely low cost" service) then I see a huge pool of
potential donors. HVCN is getting a lot of positive response on this
assumption, why not Grex? The limitation will come from the time of the
individual user to digest the available information, not from the ability of
the system to distribute the bytes. I think we should think in terms of
"intelligent" agents to help find relevancy on the future Grex and developing
the widest possible access. Is that not the real assumption behind Grex? A
global library with a personalized card catalog? Sure, you can't possibly have
the time to cover every conference and every nuance, but you will have
opportunities to connect never before possible. We _are_ human, after all.
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chelsea
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response 58 of 90:
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Sep 30 15:01 UTC 1996 |
The original idea was that Grex be welcoming of all users, whether you
paid dues or donated or not. We knew there would be restrictions at some
point, necessary in order not to swamp our hardware or push our volunteer
staff into exhaustion. The addition of Internet access, and the need to
be a good node neighbor, brought about our internal policy of asking for
identification for all outbound users. State law dictates how the
membership roster is maintained.
So far we've been able to pretty much hold to this open philosophy without
looking at perks and restrictions as marketing tools. Donations are
accepted as that, gifts given in the spirit of keeping things open for all
users.
I guess this needs to be repeated over and over and over until some folks
get it.
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adbarr
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response 59 of 90:
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Sep 30 15:41 UTC 1996 |
Yes, but it needs to be told to the users effectively, not the creators of
Grex. They are no longer the same. We are not marketing effectively, but then
I get the impression we don't want to. Do we or don't we? (From a newcomer,
carpetbagger, Yankee, etc. etc.)
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robh
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response 60 of 90:
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Sep 30 16:17 UTC 1996 |
If "marketing" means "getting money", no we aren't, and yes we want to.
If "marketing" means "going out of our way to get more users", no we aren't,
and no we don't want to.
(Both of the above are my own opinions, of course.)
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orinoco
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response 61 of 90:
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Sep 30 21:22 UTC 1996 |
I don't know if this possibility has been raised before, but what about
limiting POP mail to paying members, as is telnetting out, etc?
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davel
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response 62 of 90:
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Oct 1 14:03 UTC 1996 |
orinoco, please read response # 58. (*I* certainly second the basic philosophy
Mary outlined, & I'd judge that most of Grex's members have from the
beginning & still do; from past experience it's clear that questions of
where to draw the line - and especially of raising money for specific services
with specific costs attached - raise lots of debate.)
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adbarr
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response 63 of 90:
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Oct 2 16:21 UTC 1996 |
Here is something completely off the wall: How about offering some sort of
joint membership package -- Grex and -- oh, say, who? HVCN? <adbarr stops
and quickly unfolds the map to the Grexbunker!>
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popcorn
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response 64 of 90:
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Oct 2 16:58 UTC 1996 |
Fine by me. It would involve a change to Grex's bylaws, though, so you're
sure to get some lively debate over the question. Heck, participating in the
People's Food Co-op's "Healthy Savings" discount plan was shot down, and I
still think that would have been a really cool thing for Grex to do.
The question of cooperative membership with HVCN is likely to raise some of
the same questions. Really, I'd like to see Grex explore doing more
cooperation with other organizations. I think it'd be healthy for all
organizations involved. <sigh>
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orinoco
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response 65 of 90:
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Oct 2 22:06 UTC 1996 |
Re #62. Point taken. Sorry, I should have realized that. just a
suggestion...
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kerouac
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response 66 of 90:
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Oct 3 16:17 UTC 1996 |
maybe grex could help savemnetby going in on a join t membership
with them. Split themoney on each membership and say that those
who buyon er...under the plan will be members of both grex and mnet.
With mnet's future uncertain, this would probalby hgelp them get members...
and help grex getnew ones as well.
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scott
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response 67 of 90:
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Oct 4 00:16 UTC 1996 |
Let it drop, Kerouac.
Grex is *not* going to combine with M-net in *any* form.
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kerouac
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response 68 of 90:
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Oct 4 16:27 UTC 1996 |
This is nOT combining...are you guys so cold hearted that
helping m-net survive in any meaningful way is out of the question?
Somebody pays $10 a month, grex gets half and m-net gets half
and both get new members.
Thisis not a bad idea. Butmaybe most ofyou want m-net to die
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draven
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response 69 of 90:
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Oct 4 16:49 UTC 1996 |
I don't think anyone here wants M-Net to die, but we also don't want
Grex to go down with it.
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dam
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response 70 of 90:
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Oct 4 16:51 UTC 1996 |
Well, right now, someone could pay $6 to Grex, $4 to mnet, become a member
of grex, and m-net still gets 80% of the money you propose.
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kerouac
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response 71 of 90:
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Oct 4 17:15 UTC 1996 |
#70...no, grex gets half,mnet gets half...you'd pay more money
to become a member of both than just one, but a discount when
compard to becoming a member in both indiidually.
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robh
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response 72 of 90:
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Oct 4 17:20 UTC 1996 |
I don't want Grex to die, but I don't want to go to bed with
either. I don't like the combined-dues idea.
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adbarr
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response 73 of 90:
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Oct 4 17:47 UTC 1996 |
Of course you are right. I never did trust those guys/gals at Grex - or was
it the Commies, Russians, Chinese, non-whites, pasta-cookers, Romans -- I
never can get this straight, but I feel much safer knowing we are on guard.
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janc
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response 74 of 90:
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Oct 4 19:28 UTC 1996 |
The amount M-Net loses each month is more than the amount Grex grosses each
much. Grex trying to save M-Net is like trying to catch a falling anvil in
a paper cup.
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