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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 129 responses total. |
chelsea
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response 50 of 129:
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Nov 15 19:11 UTC 1995 |
Refresh my memory, Greg. I remember you're willingness to house Grex in
your basement but did that also include the willingness to give staff
members keys and facilitate full access to the machine at any time,
without restrictions? That's a big chunk of what we are getting
for $25 a month. Also, amortize that $400 over the length of our
lease and it's still a bargain for Grex.
I'm afraid of what will happen with this issue, quite frankly. I've
watched a kind of cowboy mentality grow over how we've been wronged
and are "owed" this and that. I sure am glad I'm not on the Board
and directly subject to any liability. And I'll be doubly glad when
I'm not indirectly linked to the same.
Drop the hostility and negotiate an end to the lease as it expires.
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rcurl
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response 51 of 129:
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Nov 15 19:13 UTC 1995 |
Re #46: I think you should communicate with both of the landlords about
the vandalism, indicate you think you should notify the police, and ask for
their suggestions. Most important, always keep both involved. The clamp
should be replaced, of course - and maybe there is a more fool(!)-proof
way to secure it.
This event, while it is vandalism, is very innocuous compared to what is
possible - especially considering all the other events that take Grex
down. I concur with the other suggestions to keep our response very even
tempered, directed mostly at solving the problem, rather than making
accusations.
Would anyone on the premises agree to monitor a power-off alarm? THey
wouldn't have to hang around for it, but if they noticed it was alarming,
they could check (and maybe meet someone coming out of the basement).
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chelsea
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response 52 of 129:
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Nov 15 19:13 UTC 1995 |
I really should proofread this stuff.
s /lawsuit/law suit
s /you're/your
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gregc
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response 53 of 129:
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Nov 15 21:15 UTC 1995 |
mary, at the time, I was willing to let 2 or 3 staff members, that I trusted
have keys. As for access, I simply made the request: "If there's a problem
with the machine, call me first. If I don't answer, assume I'm not home and
drive over and let yourself in." As for regular work like backups, I requested
that a schedule be setup, so I didn't do all the work, and so I knew before
hand when people would be going in and out of my house.
Not as completely open as we have now, but more than workable.
So in answer to your original question: "Yes".
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janc
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response 54 of 129:
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Nov 15 23:18 UTC 1995 |
I don't think there is a shortage of basements around. For instance, there
is a Caldwell-Reinhart agency in a building that used to be a HoJo at the
intersection of Stadium and Washtenaw. In the back there are outside stairs
going down to the basement. That space used to be rented by a bike shop named
Ike's Bikes which I happen to know about because Klaus worked there for
several years. I'm pretty sure it has been vacant for the last decade or
so. That's got 24-hour access, good location, and business-like landlords.
I'd much rather go for some place like that than put it in anybody's home.
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chelsea
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response 55 of 129:
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Nov 15 23:24 UTC 1995 |
Not to be nitpicky, but, my original question was would you
have allowed staff full access without restrictions, so the
answer is indeed, "no". ;-)
But despite that your offer was generous. Far more generous
than I would have been regarding Grex being in my basement.
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ajax
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response 56 of 129:
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Nov 15 23:47 UTC 1995 |
A couple of tangential questions:
Seems like the power shutoffs often occur at night. Think it's
just the most malicious time (we'll be down longer), or perhaps
something triggers it (modem screeches or other beeps being
piped through the air ducts into people's bedrooms)? That's an
area where talking more with Beth (the landlord) might help.
Do we know how the SS got hold of Grex's real-world address,
since it's relatively unpublished? Certainly they could trace
it if they wanted, but I'd think they'd come across Dan's or
someone's before Grex's actual address, and talk to them first.
(Or e-mail postmaster@cyberspace, or "let their fingers do the
walking," or something! :-) Unfortunate that they chose that
location as a point of contact, for Beth, them, and us.
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adbarr
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response 57 of 129:
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Nov 16 00:36 UTC 1995 |
ajax, the address of Grex would normally be in the lease agreement.
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scott
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response 58 of 129:
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Nov 16 00:47 UTC 1995 |
It's also in the phone book. :(
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kerouac
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response 59 of 129:
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Nov 16 00:54 UTC 1995 |
Question: Can the secret service compell staffto give themaccess
toa users files? or more specifically, protected files on grex, password
information or personal infogiven to staff when auser wants
validationtobecomea member?
Ifyou were the Unabomber or some idiot who wantedto threaten the president
this would be the perfectplacetos end email. Itsjust creepy tothink
that the secret serviceis prowling a round here. They mightb e doing
FBI background checks on the names ofevery user in this system. Eachand
every one ofus might have a big note nexttoyour name in their computer
files sayingweuse Grex,a system where security threats have been made
I can see itnow. I might endup in a job oneofthesedayswhere I need
government clearance, theres a lot that require that, and I'llhave
to explain away my use of an unsecured system thath asproduced threats.
I'm not kidding. Those government security clearance formsarea
nightmare (you have to provide a reference for every placeyou have ever
lived in your entire life, and they willeven goso far as to talktoyour
grades school t eachers!)
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gregc
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response 60 of 129:
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Nov 16 01:48 UTC 1995 |
Kerouac, the Secret Service per se, could not compel us to do that, but
a judge's court order could, yes.
Mary, your *original* question, and I quote response #45, was:
"Would you keep Grex in your basement and
tolerate Grex related traffic at any hour for $25 a month?"
I stated that I would be willing to have done that, so the answer would
in fact have been "yes".
(I'll stop beating this dead horse now)
But Jan's right, a commercial/public/non-residential location would be
vastly superior to someone's home.
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adbarr
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response 61 of 129:
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Nov 16 02:11 UTC 1995 |
Dumb, I feel! ajax, I apologize for confusing your question. I doubt if the
Secret Services had (until now) a copy of your lease. I would not panic about
them keeping files on every user. They are not completely stupid. No one has
a perfect record (on this planet) and they know that. Joe Mcarthy is dead,
and unless the religious extremists gain control of the government, I would
not fear a legitimate investigation. Not only was the address in the phone
book, but there was an article in the AA news, remember? In a way, I think
they should be complimented for finding your location. HVCN, on the other hand
is secure! <joke, just kidding, :-) >
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ajax
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response 62 of 129:
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Nov 16 02:37 UTC 1995 |
Hm, I don't see the address in the AA News article, and my
Ameritech 94-95 phone book lists Cyberspace Communications as
being in Scio Township (from its previous location in a warehouse?)
(I hope that wasn't supposed to be subterfuge which I just blew).
I'm definitely not worried about the SS lingering around Michigan
in November to investigate us all. I'm sure southern California
is *teeming* with potential assassins they can check up on :-).
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remmers
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response 63 of 129:
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Nov 16 02:50 UTC 1995 |
Try "whois cyberspace.org".
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nestene
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response 64 of 129:
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Nov 16 07:12 UTC 1995 |
!whois cyberspace.org
whois: sri-nic.arpa: host unknown
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chelsea
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response 65 of 129:
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Nov 16 12:01 UTC 1995 |
As of a few weeks ago (last I tested it) the !whois showed
the address as the dungeon, showing the Liberty Street address.
So the Secret Service found Grex this time just like they did
last time when they visited us when our address was listed
in the !whois command. No black magic involved.
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remmers
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response 66 of 129:
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Nov 16 12:14 UTC 1995 |
Right. The !whois command doesn't seem to work on Grex currently,
but it does on other systems.
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popcorn
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response 67 of 129:
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Nov 16 16:09 UTC 1995 |
Grex's whois command uses an outdated server by default.
Try "whois -h rs.internic.net" plus the address you want to look up
(eg "whois -h rs.internic.net cyberspace.org") to use it.
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ajax
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response 68 of 129:
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Nov 16 16:26 UTC 1995 |
Ahso. I wasn't suggesting mysterious ways, just wondering
how people get the info. In deference to other tenants' dislike
of Grex-related visitors and packages, would it be feasible
to change that listing? Or is the physical address mandatory?
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davel
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response 69 of 129:
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Nov 16 16:39 UTC 1995 |
The current (quite new) Ameritech book shows the dungeon for Cyberspace Comm.
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popcorn
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response 70 of 129:
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Nov 16 16:40 UTC 1995 |
Yes. We realized a few weeks ago that it was dumb to have that address
listed there, and were just thinking we should change it, just before this
secret service thing came up.
The phonebook listing was Ameritech's mistake. I asked them to list us
with just "Ann Arbor" as our address, but evidently they missed.
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popcorn
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response 71 of 129:
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Nov 16 16:41 UTC 1995 |
(Davel's #69 slipped in.)
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popcorn
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response 72 of 129:
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Nov 16 16:41 UTC 1995 |
(The "that address listed there" in #70 refers to the address in Grex's
"whois" listing.)
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janc
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response 73 of 129:
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Nov 16 18:09 UTC 1995 |
Re #59 (kerouac): Actually, no Grex is not a particularly good place to
send mail from. We are amazingly good at tracking down trouble-makers
(largely because the trouble-makers are amazingly stupid, but what else is
new). Relative to most systems on the net, we have a extremely knowledgable
staff and respond very quickly to these kinds of situations. There are
thousands of netsites where you'd be more likely to get away with this kind
of thing than Grex. And yes, we do cooperate with the Secret Service, and
even seem to have been instructing them on how to effectively track these
people.
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kerouac
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response 74 of 129:
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Nov 17 02:55 UTC 1995 |
See I think this could be a problem. Someone joins grex, giving a personal
check as a form of validation. Staff turns the copy of the check over to
secret service, violating at least an implied agreement of confidentiality.
An old college friend of mine works for the fbi and she assured me that it is
the agency practice to keep files on everyone who pays taxes in this country
(or anyone who has a SS# number to be more precise) and to prove her point,
because I was skeptical, she accesed my file and quioted personal information
that that she would have had no way of knowing. So what Im sasking is how
secure-proof is the contract between the staff and members of grex. Even if Im
not a terrorirst, I dont want staff handing onver personal information Ive
given *them* to the FBI or the secret service. I dont even want staff giving
them my pw or otherwise giving them access to my email. Its not that I have
anything to hide. I dont. I'll probnably get a security clearance once of
these days when the job is worth it.
But the questin is whether it is spelled out clearly enough what information
staff can turn over and what it cannot absent a court order.
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