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Grex > Coop6 > #30: "Coffeehouse" Connection to Grex? | |
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| 25 new of 86 responses total. |
kentn
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response 50 of 86:
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Nov 20 21:48 UTC 1994 |
Assuming command line computer literacy at or near UM is a bad
assumption. UM pushes Macs and Mac-heads can't seem to make anything
without a mouse and a GUI run, at least, not without complaining
a lot and requiring much hand-holding. At least that's my experience
with UM undergrads.
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jep
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response 51 of 86:
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Nov 20 22:17 UTC 1994 |
Regarding M-Net's Merit University Towers connection:
Jon Zeeff set up a Merit connection at U. Towers several years ago,
when Mike Myers was still running M-Net, and when the dialouts were being
shut down from public use. Jon sold it to U. Towers on the idea that
their users could access M-Net easily, but it gave a single line
connection to anyone who could access the "Which Host?" prompt. About 2
years ago, Jim Knight arranged with Merit for us to multiplex this
connection; Jon Zeeff wrote some software for a PC using KA9Q which
handled the multiplexing for the Altos. When we switched to the 486, we
stopped using KA9Q and went to direct telnet. We pay $100/month to Merit,
and we're a sort of Merit affiliate.
I recently discussed possibilities for moving from the U. Towers
connection, which is no longer maintained by Merit, to a NAS, which would
be maintained. The costs seemed pretty high; there's a discussion in the
M-Net policy conference. Since I don't see the connection with this
discussion, and also since our discussions with Merit are not complete,
I'll leave those interested to read the item on M-Net.
If there are terminals which can access M-Net at the U. Towers, other
than residents accessing Merit through U. Towers with their own computers,
few if any people make use of that capability.
The proposal in this item seems unique to me; certainly much
different than anything we do with Merit. There's some discussion as to
whether M-Net would be interested in being listed on a computer used for
public access. Certainly we would. Like Grex, we're interested in
reaching as many people as we can, particularly people in the Ann Arbor
area. I'm not sure exactly what is being proposed, or what Arbornet's
obligation would be (money, support, maintaining a connection, etc.), but
if you have a proposal, I am sure Arbornet would be very pleased to
consider it. If it's to just put M-Net's name and phone number on a menu,
please go right ahead. M-Net is unrestricted (the guest lines are,
anyway). More would likely require Board approval. I can't speak for the
Board.
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steve
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response 52 of 86:
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Nov 21 01:13 UTC 1994 |
I think Kent is right about UM affliated folk being more familiar
with a gui type of environment. But also, those folks have access to
the UM computing sites, which are incredibly well connected and have
fast CPUs.
However it goes, Grex needs to have documentation in place first
before we can be of much good to people in a public setting.
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popcorn
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response 53 of 86:
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Nov 21 14:12 UTC 1994 |
Re 40: Robh - This is just a suggestion, which you should feel free to
ignore, but you might want to ask for ideas before you put the work into
creating a prototype help system. No sense putting in a bunch of time
only to have people later pipe up with great ideas that mean you have to
rewrite the whole darn thing.
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remmers
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response 54 of 86:
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Nov 21 17:03 UTC 1994 |
To respectfully disagree: I think a prototype would be a great starting
point for discussion, as long as Rob and everybody else goes into it with
the understanding that it's subject to further input and revision. My
experience with doing the talking first is that there tends to be a good
deal of wheel-spinning.
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robh
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response 55 of 86:
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Nov 21 23:57 UTC 1994 |
popcorn - (A) I understand completely that most or all of what
I'm doing now may be thrown away later. That's what prototypes are for.
(B) Now that I've started, I realize just how BAD I am at
writing documentation and such, so I'd actually *prefer* it
if most of it were rewritten later. >8)
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tsty
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response 56 of 86:
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Nov 22 21:30 UTC 1994 |
Regarding chelsea's #46, my original thought (waaaay back when) was
that the rehab committee would install and maintain these sites,
and possibly make a buck for Grex to recoup the cost of the
machines and possibly use the bucks for more machines for the
rehab committee to have available.
It was to be a bootstrap arrangement and I fully intended to
make sure the thing worked, which includes the time and effort,
and hardware geekiness necessary.
Then several realizations gelled. What the are is of no import.
The result however meant that the only structure that had much of
a chance would be for me, and only me, to run the project
as my own, totally, and invite Grex along for a free ride, which
is what is now proposed. Grex has no liability. I have it all,
including being responsible for any long distance phone calls
made from these sites, and, yes, anyone will be permitted to
plug in their own "brought in" stuff if they don't choose to
use the terminal/modem selection at that particualar site.
It's not a problem - I've been installing call-killers for
about five years and they're only failure mode is to
prohibit +ALL+ phone calls from being made. It's not a problem.
So, the only "liability" that I can see is rotten instructions
in writing, and I'm sure that wouldn't happen, would it.
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rcurl
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response 57 of 86:
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Nov 22 21:57 UTC 1994 |
Naaaaa! Just look at all those instructions that come with other
hardware.. 8*P
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carson
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response 58 of 86:
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Nov 23 04:08 UTC 1994 |
(I feel a little bad interjecting this here, but I learned today
that U-Towers is interested in upgrading their current computer
situation. Go figure.)
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chelsea
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response 59 of 86:
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Nov 23 04:26 UTC 1994 |
Someone posts a libelous comment somewhere and the slandered person maybe
feels like seeking justice through a lawsuit. Or a kid gets picked up by
a sleazy adult who likes escorting young boys around computerland. Or the
terminal cord gets munged and a user gets electrocuted. Yuck. None of
these scenarios are probable and such potential legal action may not even
be appropriately aimed, or fair, but that doesn't mean Grex (if Grex was
indeed involved) wouldn't be into the thick of a legal nightmare.
My concern with Grex being involved just yet is that we don't carry any
liability insurance. We couldn't even help out someone who was injured
through our negligence and deserved compensation. I have some of these
same concerns about the machines we are "loaning" in the rehab program but
somewhere you have to not fret so much and tend to let the good deeds
overrule some of the concerns.
But in terms of terminals in businesses, where there will be lots of users
and money being made, somehow I see this type of program as having a
higher liability profile and it would be prudent of Grex to consider
insurance coverage and what could happen to the organization an/or its
officers in the event of a problem.
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chelsea
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response 60 of 86:
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Nov 23 04:28 UTC 1994 |
Carson, why do you feel bad about that news?
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chelsea
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response 61 of 86:
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Nov 23 04:29 UTC 1994 |
Or for entering that news here?
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jep
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response 62 of 86:
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Nov 23 04:43 UTC 1994 |
Arbornet has liability insurance, property loss insurance, and
perhaps other insurance; it is required by our NEW Center contract. It
costs us about $200 per year. I thought we followed Grex in getting
insurance. Considering that (as I understand things) the Board members
might otherwise be found liable for the results of being sued, it seems
like a good expenditure to me.
Carson, where did you hear that U. Towers wants to upgrade their
Merit hardware?
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popcorn
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response 63 of 86:
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Nov 23 05:50 UTC 1994 |
John - any info you could pass along about where to insure a beast like
m-net or grex would be *much* appreciated. Someone (Mary, I think) did
research all over town looking for insurance, but nothing was available
that was affordable and complete enough.
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carson
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response 64 of 86:
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Nov 23 08:30 UTC 1994 |
Chelsea, I felt a little bad about mentioning it after I'd spent
unecessary text ridiculing their current state, mostly because of my
unhappiness with their misrepresentations in other matters as well.
Jep, I'd heard it straight from the person who'd probably be responsible
for such a purchase while I was doing some volunteer work at PSC involving
inventory of computers, hence the topic. U-Towers had been interested in
acquiring some of the older computers as an upgrade.
(sorry if that all sounds a bit incoherent; I've had a long night already.)
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chelsea
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response 65 of 86:
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Nov 23 13:09 UTC 1994 |
I believe I looked into the same company that M-net went with, Hastings
Mutual, maybe? Anyhow, there was an item a few Co-ops ago where different
policies were discussed at length. The priority appeared to be cheap
coverage for our hardware, not liabilities, and any insurance that covered
equipment was beyond our budget at that time. Heck, we even discussed
what would happen if one of our staffers injured him or herself while
tending the machines but ended up not feeling we could afford insurance
covering such events.
If this is something folks would like to discuss further I could dig
up that earlier discussion and enter it in a file somewhere online.
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rcurl
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response 66 of 86:
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Nov 23 14:29 UTC 1994 |
That's probably a good idea. We are in a better position now to be
self insured w.r.t. hardware, and should consider carrying liability,
as that always involves bigger risks.
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jfk
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response 67 of 86:
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Nov 23 19:05 UTC 1994 |
I think we used Dobson-Mcomber, or some such.
The Utowers may want to upgrade there computer equipment, but that
doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to upgrade from an SCP to a NAS,
or that they are going to keep or upgrade their merit connection.
There has been talk in the past by Arbornet's current president, and
a former board member (who by chance was a roommate of TS), about doing this
very thing. It never has gottten off the ground, although there has been
interest. Having a point person to drive hte issue is important.
I'm sure M-net would probably be interested in a partnership in something
with Grex, if the opportunity was given (speaking as a former board
member only).
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chelsea
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response 68 of 86:
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Nov 25 12:32 UTC 1994 |
Dobson-McComber would be the independent agency offering the policy with
Hastings Mutual, according to my notes. This policy would have been for
$6,000 replacement value on the hardware and $500,000 minimum on
liablility with a premium starting at $250 per year with a $250
deductible. Outside flooding, surge protection where the point of
origination was greater than 100 feet from the computer, and sewer backup
were all covered.
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pegasus
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response 69 of 86:
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Nov 26 03:37 UTC 1994 |
And what was the reason for not going with them? Was it just funding? I
can't remember.
Pattie
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chelsea
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response 70 of 86:
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Nov 26 11:51 UTC 1994 |
Yep, a year ago the feeling seemed to be we simply couldn't
afford to carry insurance.
Item #40 has been entered for discussion of insurance issues.
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tsty
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response 71 of 86:
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Nov 27 00:40 UTC 1994 |
How does Grex want to publicise, now that we are back on topic?
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steve
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response 72 of 86:
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Nov 27 02:21 UTC 1994 |
If we want to publicize our selves, it should be locally.
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sidhe
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response 73 of 86:
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Feb 7 18:51 UTC 1995 |
Hmm.. why? And what's local? Michigan? metro Detroit? A2/ypsi?
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steve
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response 74 of 86:
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Feb 7 19:49 UTC 1995 |
Because, we're getting swamped enough as it is, I think. I've now
seen the 'all ports busy' message four times when trying to telnet here
in the last two months. I never saw that before. We're now getting
referrals from referrals, and whole familes on here.
I think its great! I don't mind seeing Grex all clogged up--quite
the opposite.
But, given the vast numbers of people who know about us and tell their
friends, etc, shouldn't we concentrate on the local users? Newcommers from
Ann Arbor are pretty rare these days, compared to the total number. Since
other people seem to have no problem finding Grex, doesn't it make sense to
try and nudge Ann Arbor/local folks a little more?
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