response 50 of 79:

Apr 2 21:09 UTC 2002

Great, then where the hell does that leave everyone who's half this and 
half that? Does that mean I have to leave if I'm less than one-eighth 
and not recognized by the tribal nation with which I claim common 
ancestry?

In all seriousness, Glenda has a good point.  It's very interesting how 
the civil rights movement seemed to include everyone but Native 
Americans.

Not that anyone else hasn't thought this already, but this, "my plight 
is more serious than yours" business is bullshit.  And I am sure that 
most of what has been said in that direction is partially in gest.    
When you come down to it how much worse is being confined to barely 
farmable land and forced to wear hair and clothing differently, exposed 
to disease, forced to refrain from speaking their indigenous languages 
than being kidnapped, tightly or loosly (ie "less tightly) packed on 
shipps for months on end, traded and sold, force to abandon ancient 
religions and language.  While some of the tactics were different, the 
ultimate reasons behind them and the results were the same.  That being 
said, how can people not understand why people do these things.  It's 
not just about needing to "get over it."  If people weren't subjected 
to oppression today, it's doubtful that they would be so focused on the 
past and choose to take legal action.

response 52 of 79:

Apr 3 01:13 UTC 2002

        It's also a very large minority with immense political and economic
power simply by dint of the fact that there are so many people in it;  smaller
minorities in America simply don't have as much voice in a democracy.

        The term "reverse-racism" also bugs me, but I don't think that it's
just anti-affirmative-action types who use the term;  partially it's a
reaction to the whacko-liberal assertion that only those in the statistical
majority can be racist.  It doesn't agree with any definition that I've seen
of the word, but there are people who belive you can't be racist - no matter
what you think, say, or do - if you're not white.  I usually just translate
it to "racism" in my head before applying judgement.

        When it comes to focussing on the past, I think that's mostly human
nature.  It's becoming increasingly hard to tell whether a failure is because
of a personal problem or because of racism;  one could not be hired because
of race and never know about it because a statement will never be made to that
effect, and one can be not hired for reasons of background and inverviewing
style and believe it racism.  That leaves a very murky area which people tend
to interpret as they see fit, and many seem to choose to see fault in others
before fault in themselves.

response 54 of 79:

Apr 3 03:51 UTC 2002

"Once Again" Rane has shown an astonishing ability to completely miss the
point.  Should I bother explaining?

I don't know.  I should probably take the chance to mention to Rane that I'm
a bit more liberal than he seems to think I come off online, but that's
because it's so much fun to tweak him for his hypocritical high-horse hubris.
Just too easy to pass up.  

Let's look at a few things.  First, let me use a hypothetical personal example
of what the problems could be if corporations were used as scapegoats for past
wrongs, just because they're there.  Suppose Ford had to pay out significant
funds in reparation (yeah, yeah, they're not a likely target, but it's just
an example).  The impact on the company results in a downsizing effort that
eventually leads to the closure of a plant and a reduction in white-collar
staff.  My mother, descendent of Italian and Lebanese immigrants, loses her
job in the downsizing.  My dad, if he's alive at the time, loses the insurance
he so desperately needs to combat cancer.  His role in slavery and racism?
As an immigrant from Canada, with Ancestors in Canada at least back into the
early 19th century, can't take the blame.  However, both are punished.

The plant, by the way?  Gene Dubliewicz, third generation plant worker and
great-granchild of Polish Immigrants, also loses his job, and his family is
forced to sell the house and move to a small condo in Romulus.  He naturally
sees the reparations as the direct cause of his unfortunate situation, and
angrily places blame on....

The cycle continues.  

Where is the big social movement to pay reparations to Hispanic-Americans,
who for the most part are in as bad financial shape as African-Americans? 
Where are the reparations for years of American exploitation of Latin America?
As mentioned, Native Americans are certainly the most striking example of the
social-goodwill movement that isn't.  It *should* be meaningless, because our
society *should* be looking at a larger picture that earnestly tries to
improve the status of the millions of our brethren who are mired in low
incomes.  Sympathy should be based on class rather than race, but in a heated
political climate that is far more concerned with image than with reality,
we have a long way to go.  

Both political parties are, rather than acting to improve the situation as
they claim to believe, making things worse.

response 56 of 79:

Apr 3 04:01 UTC 2002

The point is discussion.

response 58 of 79:

Apr 3 05:44 UTC 2002

Heh.  A political class, yeah.

You're still missing it a bit.  Think "symptoms."  Too bad the patient doesn't
want to know what they have.

response 60 of 79:

Apr 3 14:02 UTC 2002

This is business we're talking about.  If you ask them how much they can
afford to pay, they will all say "zero."

response 62 of 79:

Apr 3 19:03 UTC 2002

More to the point, the argument in #54 paragraph 3 could apply to any lawsuit
against any corporation.  Any successful lawsuit could lead to innocent
employees suffering.  And ridiculous as many lawsuits are these days, it's
still better to have the ability to sue when you've been wronged.  

response 68 of 79:

Apr 6 22:37 UTC 2002

oh shit -  think I'M a slave!

response 72 of 79:

Apr 7 17:29 UTC 2002

Then the difficulty is increased, as we must determine the exact mixture
of DNA in each potential recipient that "lived" as slave or non-slave
in the time of slavery, regardless of ethnic origin. Otherwise there
is no way to implement a reparations policy fairly.

response 74 of 79:

Apr 7 22:01 UTC 2002

You have to file a three page return to get it back.  With waivers and family
trees attached in triplicate.  Don't forget your thumbprint and photo ID,
either.