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Grex > Coop > #262: The problems with validation | |
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| Author |
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| 25 new of 42 responses total. |
mary
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response 5 of 42:
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Jan 5 12:25 UTC 2010 |
It sounds like Tony would be on top of any vandal activity, as he's been
on M-Net. If that's what he has in mind I'd sure like to see us open the
doors.
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kentn
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response 6 of 42:
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Jan 5 15:56 UTC 2010 |
I lump things like dumping hundreds of junk items into the conferences,
denial of service by using all ttys, and intentionally crashing or
hanging the system, to be acts of vandalism of a sort. I'm sure there
are other acts that would also qualify. Maybe there's a better term to
use to describe these acts, though.
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unicorn
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response 7 of 42:
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Jan 5 16:43 UTC 2010 |
What I meant by my comment was that haven't seen any acts of vandalism
after the current validation requirements were in place, but I'm not so
sure the validation requirements are what has prevented those acts. I
certainly saw a lot of vandalism before that, though.
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kentn
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response 8 of 42:
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Jan 5 16:54 UTC 2010 |
Okay, that makes sense.
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tod
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response 9 of 42:
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Jan 5 17:45 UTC 2010 |
I hope Grex isn't banking on Tonster being the magic bullet for its
policy based problems.
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tsty
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response 10 of 42:
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Jan 6 05:49 UTC 2010 |
ummmmmmmmmmm, i was a thte meeting and i have an mp3 of it as well.
i remember zip about validatoin allowingvandals in, but i may be wroing,
and i can say that the validation i hvae done has resulted in noe
vandals ... it -has- resulted in non-validatoin for a few logins thogh.
yeh, it tkaes some amount of my time but i consider that valuable
enough to continue to do it.
it also provides the oppeot9nity to establish a peson on the 'other end' who
converses with newuseres ... rather than an imperosnal, click-here, weldcome
to grex.
at a board meeingting 'we' might wnat to set up some boiler plate to add
to the personal touch.. i;ve been realtively careful with the tpyoing
on those, fwiw.
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mary
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response 11 of 42:
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Jan 6 12:09 UTC 2010 |
So what's the deal with that mp3? I'd like to see it go up, public, just
as the Grex meeting itself was public. Board meetings should be open,
welcoming and transparent.
Now, TS, you objected and for that reason it was up for the meeting but
taken down the next day. But now it's being passed around among friends?
Yuck. I'd like to just make it public and let anyone who wants to be
"present" at the meeting be able to be part of the process.
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tonster
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response 12 of 42:
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Jan 6 12:26 UTC 2010 |
if audio is taken, I'd say it should be public. the board meetings are
public and anyone else could have taken audio and passed it around.
trying to hide it or say it's private after the fact makes it seem like
there's something to hide.
as far as validation, the biggest problem I have is that it takes away
from the 'open access' system that has always been grex (and m-net).
the opportunity to talk to someone on the other end is nice, but not
everyone gives a damn to talk to someone to get free access to
something. they're more likely to just walk on by and find someone else
by putting up blocks.
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tsty
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response 13 of 42:
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Jan 6 18:19 UTC 2010 |
re 11 .. i'll email you .. therse is some ocnfusion.
btw, only the offer has been passsed arond ... not hte file
no onwe took me up on it ... so far.
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tsty
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response 14 of 42:
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Jan 6 18:20 UTC 2010 |
iird, the mp3 is 15 meg and the video is ~150 meg
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tod
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response 15 of 42:
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Jan 6 18:51 UTC 2010 |
Write the check
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scholar
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response 16 of 42:
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Jan 10 22:55 UTC 2010 |
Re. 10: I don't know who it was, but one of the validators who was at the
meeting mentioned that cdalten had gotten through the process successfully.
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cross
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response 17 of 42:
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Jan 18 02:31 UTC 2010 |
A while ago, we talked about doing something like what SDF does: you
are in a restricted environment until you pay some nominal one-time charge
via, e.g., PayPal. It was agreed that we could do that, with some sort of
back-channel mechanism for people who couldn't otherwise do that. I think
that makes the most sense.
Before people talk about removing the validation step, recall what life was
like before it. Grex was up and down all the time; the open-access system
had failed.
Why is that? I think it's worth investigating that before changing things
around.
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tonster
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response 18 of 42:
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Jan 18 09:19 UTC 2010 |
in all fairness, the system being up and down has kind of been grex's
trademark for the past decade for whatever reason. :) That said,
m-net's been pretty stable for the past several years and remains an
open-access system. Even through similar issues as what cdalten did, we
remained online nearly the whole time, with some periods of slowness or
bbs/backtalk locked up when he played his little games. Since being
asked to leave, those issues have not continued. It should certainly be
possible to return to being open access without requiring some form of
identity to have a usable shell.
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mary
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response 19 of 42:
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Jan 18 13:19 UTC 2010 |
I think we should try being open again.
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veek
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response 20 of 42:
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Jan 18 13:27 UTC 2010 |
Re #18: yup. all it required was some will and vigour in tackling Chad
+I think he was a reasonably(electron microscope required) nice guy
anyway. It also helps that the M-Net culture is less polite and more
willing to do things (forcefully if necessary). We, are awfully
bureaucratic! Too much chit-chat and soul-searching, and not enough of
the red-hot poker. Oh well..
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cross
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response 21 of 42:
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Jan 18 16:35 UTC 2010 |
I think the Grex culture is structed to bring things like Chad on itself.
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unicorn
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response 22 of 42:
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Jan 19 15:19 UTC 2010 |
Why do you say that?
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cross
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response 23 of 42:
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Jan 19 16:43 UTC 2010 |
Grex is a place that never learned that just because you find people
who are messed up in the same way you are, that doesn't mean that
it's okay to be that messed up.
The Grex community prides itself on its openness, but the reality
is that Grex is only open if you conform to a very narrow definition
of what it means to be open; I actually find it very intolerant.
It's open in that same way that breezy-voiced ex-hippies who wear
wispy, flowing clothes and lots of bracelets like to think of
themselves as being open while locking their car doors whenever a
black person drives by.
Grex is the SUV with the "Save Mother Earth" bumper sticker.
Basically, Grex users are happy about users who are "supportive"
and "understanding" but completely intolerant of people who question
the established norms. Asking the question, "why is it not okay
for someone to not breastfeed?" is likely to get someone jumped
around here (or was, back when Grex was more than just a shell of
itself).
In short, Grex is something of the worst of the 1980s BBS culture
mixed with the best of the 1960s hippy movement.
Is it any wonder, then, that people like Chad prey on it like a
vulture attacking a dying animal to hasten its death so to pick at
its carrion? Chad could shut this place down, not so much because
of the technical accumin of his attacks, but rather, because the
Grex community responded so well to it. M-Net could better weather
the storm because, in the end, its community is stronger because
they are less into this touchy-feely way of being and more into a
rougher, thicker-hided exterior.
Grex is the type of place that attracts anti-social types like Chad,
because they can get a rise out of the community because the community
is so weakly held together by a set of really unhealthy relationships.
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tonster
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response 24 of 42:
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Jan 20 02:50 UTC 2010 |
well said. I especially like the SUV comparison, although I'd change it
to a hummer.
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cross
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response 25 of 42:
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Jan 20 03:27 UTC 2010 |
Yeah, Hummer is the better analogy. I should also note that Chad is now
back on M-Net.
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remmers
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response 26 of 42:
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Jan 20 12:36 UTC 2010 |
Re resp:23 and resp:24 - If that's the way you feel about Grex, my
question would be: Why do either of you want to have anything to
do with it? Why do you hang around this awful place?
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veek
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response 27 of 42:
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Jan 20 14:13 UTC 2010 |
Re #26: it's kind of like wives.. just because they get old, crabby is
no reason to dump emm :p
(anyway, M-net hasn't got a thicker hide or anything far as I could
tell. The crowd is younger and more willing to scrap. Then they have
better staff and a board that sleeps most of the time. It works because
tony/rex are mostly nice guys.. so benevolent CEO and a sleepy board)
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tonster
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response 28 of 42:
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Jan 20 14:36 UTC 2010 |
resp:26: I think resp:23 answers that question as well. There exists
the mentality that allows for idiots like Chad to come around and beat
the system, while at the same time there is still an appeal of
participating in the conversations that take place. As well, we don't
get easily offended like so many grexers do and can ignore the idiots.
Chad persisted in his behavior on both systems for far too long, though.
Hopefully he doesn't come around again now that grex is back.
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mary
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response 29 of 42:
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Jan 20 14:54 UTC 2010 |
I don't think that answered the question posed in #26. If Grex is as bad
as you (agreeing with Dan) think, why are you here?
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