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| Author |
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| 25 new of 378 responses total. |
keesan
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response 47 of 378:
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Mar 5 19:40 UTC 2006 |
The correlation between low weight and dying early could be because some
diseases make you lose weight, not the reverse. People who are sick become
too thin, not people who are thin become sick.
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tod
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response 48 of 378:
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Mar 5 22:01 UTC 2006 |
I can imagine that thin people don't fare as well in colder climates.
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keesan
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response 49 of 378:
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Mar 5 22:06 UTC 2006 |
We dress more warmly. Fat people might not fare so well in hot summers.
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tod
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response 50 of 378:
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Mar 5 22:20 UTC 2006 |
They bloat up and smell like old bologna. I saw it happen to a fat Iraqi
Republican Guard general's body.
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keesan
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response 51 of 378:
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Mar 6 00:11 UTC 2006 |
Thin dead bodies don't smell so good either.
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glenda
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response 52 of 378:
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Mar 6 05:22 UTC 2006 |
I agree fully with Lynne on society's degrading fat people. I have been on
the receiving end (overhearing comments about look at the woman stuffing the
ice cream/candy bar/dessert into her mouth). I hurts. Especially when the
one type that they were rather obvious and loud was when I felt like having
an ice cream cone (single scoop rather than the wanted double or triple) as
a small treat after a month of very healthy eating, good exercise and a scale
showing a 10 pound loss. What was really agravating was that she was pointing
it out to her child while the two of them were also "stuffing ice cream" into
their mouths. She felt that it was ok for them to have an ice cream treat
on a hot summer day, but that I shouldn't be allowed the same thing. I figure
that if I eat right at least 5-6 days a week, let alone a whole month, I
should be allowed to have the right to eat an occasional ice cream, piece of
cake or pie, a cookie or two, or a candy bar on day 7 or 30.
Eating healthy doesn't mean cut it out all together, that just leads to
binging. It means "in moderation." Having dessert or a sweet or a handfull
of chips once every week or two will not harm you, it won't even mess up with
weight loss if it is a small treat. If you deny unhealthy foods all the
time it just leads to overeating them when you finally do give in to them.
And you will give in to them at some point. People like that woman and her
kid kind of re-enforce the what the hell, it doesn't matter what I do people
are against me anyway, I might as well forget about this whole healthy eating
thing and eat what I want when I want.
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happyboy
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response 53 of 378:
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Mar 6 08:49 UTC 2006 |
re 50:
mmmm...bologna!
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marcvh
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response 54 of 378:
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Mar 6 17:16 UTC 2006 |
Along these same lines, NPR is reporting this morning on a study where
heavy teenagers replaced high-calorie beverages with no-calorie options
and it supposedly made a difference of a pound a month.
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nharmon
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response 55 of 378:
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Mar 6 17:21 UTC 2006 |
I did hear that story this morning on my drive to work. They had that
person with the restaurant that didn't serve soda, but did serve
sweatened teas and fruit drinks that were just as unhealthy.
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slynne
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response 56 of 378:
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Mar 6 17:42 UTC 2006 |
I heard that story on NPR too and it doesnt surprise me one bit. It
kind of makes sense that the body processes liquids differently than
solids (the solids, after all, have fiber). Since I decided to give up
high fructose corn syrup, I have found that it is in more drinks than
one would imagine. It is often added to fruit juice which I think is
just wrong.
Unfortunately for me (or fortunately for me depending on how you look
at it), I cant lose weight by giving up sugary drinks because I dont
drink them regularly. I will admit though that the reason I dont drink
them has more to do with being cheap than because I dont like them. Why
would I go buy a Coke when water is FREE???
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tod
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response 57 of 378:
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Mar 6 17:43 UTC 2006 |
re #52
If you deny unhealthy foods all the
time it just leads to overeating them when you finally do give in to them.
You're making the same argument as Lynne that somehow there is a gun to your
head at some point where you are being forced to eat bad food. In America,
the choices of what to eat are astounding and sometimes it blows my mind that
people will opt for the transfat fast food over everything else. Don't you
see how ridiculous it sounds when you complain that people point at you in
amazement if you're overweight and eating something that's obviously bad for
you? If you saw a guy on an oxygen tank in a wheelchair sucking down a cigar,
wouldn't you be the least bit shocked? How about a guy with two fingers
juggling chainsaws? Think about the logic.
Yes, people are mean. Drink a v8, eat a salad, have a non-fat yogurt, and
drown your sorrows in healthy choices. Nobody is forcing you to eat crap
foods. Be glad you don't live in places where you wouldn't have the options
you have in America.
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slynne
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response 58 of 378:
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Mar 6 18:21 UTC 2006 |
resp:52 Personally, I think that it is ok for anyone to make any
choices about their own health that they would like to make and I think
it is disgusting that someone would dare make a comment about someone
else's choices in public. It doesnt matter if that is your first ice
cream cone in a year or your 50th one that day...it is NONE OF THEIR
BUSINESS.
And to do it in front of their children! Well, that is sad. It reminds
me of a conversation I had with a friend of mine. She was talking about
how, now that she is a parent, she has to watch what she says around
her kids. In her case, she was worried because sometimes her husband
makes fun of fat people and gay people. She said she is worried because
you just never know how a kid will grow up. And she worries that if her
kid grows up and is gay or fat, that it will be really terrible to not
only have the main stream culture against one but one's own parent.
resp:57 I am reading a book written by a couple of experts on eating
disorders right now. They pretty much say that food is not like other
things to which a person might have an addiction because it is so
necessary for our bodies. They talk a lot about eating foods that you
want and never depriving yourself.
They talk about some study done at the University of Toronto where they
had two groups (People currently on a diet and non-dieters). They
divided those groups into three additional groups. The subjects where
told that they were doing some kind of ice cream study. One group was
just sent in to eat ice cream. Another group was given a milk shake to
drink before going in to eat ice cream. The third group was given two
milkshakes to drink before going in. Then they measured how much ice
cream each group ate. The non-dieters ate the most ice cream when they
were sent into the room without having had a shake first, then less ice
cream if they had one milkshake and finally even less ice cream when
they had had two milkshakes. But the dieters had the opposite thing
happen. When they went in without having had the milkshake first, they
ate the least amount of ice cream. If they had a milkshake first, they
ate more ice cream, and if they had two milkshakes first, they ate even
more ice cream. The theory is that if your body is in starvation mode
(which is what happens when one goes on a diet), when it finally gets
some food, there are powerful forces that make one want to eat more.
Now of course, no one is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing
them to eat but most people will eat more following a period of
deprivation.
Anyways, these eating disorder specialists say that one has to get over
the idea that certain foods arent allowed. And then, once one does
that, one is more likely to choose to eat a salad or yogurt, or
whatever other healthy foods that people eat. Partially because most
people want to be healthy but also because healthy foods make a
person's body feel better than unhealthy ones. I guess the difference
is that eventually one is suppose to think "I can have that ice cream
cone but I would rather have this piece of fruit" as opposed to "I cant
have the ice cream cone because it is bad but instead will have this
fruit because maybe eating fruit will make me not want the ice cream so
much"
I have decided to give this approach a try since I have tried so many
other things and failed. If this doesnt work for me, than that is
fine...I will move on to something else.
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keesan
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response 59 of 378:
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Mar 6 18:43 UTC 2006 |
Low fat yogurt sold in this country is usually very high sugar and not at all
healthy unless you need to gain weight fast.
Jim's mother had a stroke and lost her medium and long-term memory as well
as some of her judgment. When Jim or his sister took her shopping she kept
putting cookies into the shopping cart and they had to take them out. And
she also kept saying things like 'look how fat that woman is'. She was not
exactly skinny herself.
Some people keep eating as long as they can see food, or know there is
prepared food ready to eat. Jim is one of those. He can't understand how
I don't want to finish all the food in my bowl (after he gives us both the
same amount). He is not fat, because he does not keep prepared foods around,
and he likes apples.
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cyklone
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response 60 of 378:
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Mar 6 20:54 UTC 2006 |
Lynne, if health care and related costs are taken into consideration, a
person's eating habits are just much a matter of public concern as a person's
smoking habits.
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marcvh
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response 61 of 378:
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Mar 6 21:09 UTC 2006 |
Only if they're eating so much that they're vomiting on you, which would
make the situation analogous to second-hand smoke.
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keesan
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response 62 of 378:
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Mar 6 21:37 UTC 2006 |
Health insurance costs go up if many of the people in the group don't take
care of their health, and statistically fatter people are more likely to have
health problems. Which does not mean that slynne, who may get more exercise
than the average thin person, is more likely to have health problems because
of her weight. Health insurance companies charge smokers more for private
policies, but group policies probably work on statistics, so companies pay
more for insurance because some people smoke.
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marcvh
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response 63 of 378:
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Mar 6 22:03 UTC 2006 |
Conversely, companies pay less money for pensions (and Social Security
matching and the like) because employees who smoke are likely to die
sooner and therefore not collect as much money when they retire. So
maybe smoking should be compulsory.
I really don't like where the road of "anything that might impact insurance
rates becomes other people's business" leads.
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slynne
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response 64 of 378:
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Mar 6 22:10 UTC 2006 |
resp:60 Well, if you are talking from a point of view of public policy,
then I will agree that diet should be a matter of public concern. I
strongly believe that most people (thin or fat) in this country
probably do not have good diets. I think that there are a lot of public
policy decisions that can enourage healthy diets and I support those
things. I dont believe that such policies should be directed at only
the obese since everyone can benefit from eating a healthy diet and
exercise.
However, we are talking about people ridiculing another person because
she happened to commit the crime of being fat and eating an ice cream
cone in public. An individual's personal choices are not anyone else's
business if they dont directly have an effect on the other person (like
second hand smoke does). If public shaming worked, there wouldnt be a
fat person in America.
One has to wonder how much extra money obese people are costing
taxpayers anyways. Because a lot of those "costs to society" figures
include things like the money that fat people pay for diets or their
health care costs paid by their insurance. That is one thing that no
one has mentioned here...just what are the risks of obesity. There are
risks, I know that. I have read a lot that being over 100lbs overweight
carries a risk of heart disease and diabetes and such. But how much of
a risk? What are the odds of still being alive at 75 for people who are
over a 100 lbs overweight compared to people who are either in the
normal range or designated "overweight" One of the main problems with
obesity research that I can tell is that there isnt a lot of agreement
about most things. I do know that a lot of the research is paid for by
the people in the diet industry. That doesnt necessarily make it wrong
but, imho, it means it should be looked at closely.
FWIW, I also dont like where the road of "anything that might impact
insurance rates becomes other people's business" leads.
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richard
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response 65 of 378:
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Mar 6 22:45 UTC 2006 |
Of course now morbidly obese people can have gastric bypass operations and
become skinny again. People have that surgery and lose two hundred pounds in
eight months and keep it off. Of course you can't eat as much anymore,
because your stomach has been made smaller, but everything in life is a
tradeoff. Also losing that much weight that fast can cause gallstones. But
its still a miracle surgery.
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bru
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response 66 of 378:
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Mar 6 22:45 UTC 2006 |
high fructose corn syrup is in a lot more than just drinks. They should stop
putting it in all foods, and start turning it into fuel.
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keesan
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response 67 of 378:
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Mar 6 23:02 UTC 2006 |
Nobody puts corn syrup in the foods we eat. What do you eat, bru?
As regards how it affects other people when the average weight of Americans
increases, they have to make airplane seats wider and carry fewer people in
order to avoid overloading the airplanes, which probably increases fares.
And average clothing is now designed to fit wider people, which means narrower
people can't get clothing to fit easily. Unless you wear used clothing, which
we do. And we rarely go on airplanes. So I don't think the so called obesity
epidemic is really affecting me personally other than as health insurance
costs. Some companies send people out to check your weight and blood
pressure and adjust the cost, or decide not to insure you, if you are fatter.
They all charge smokers extra, because there is no argument about whether
smoking is going to make the average smoker sicker.
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slynne
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response 68 of 378:
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Mar 6 23:35 UTC 2006 |
resp:65 The real question is if gastric bypass operations lead to
improved health. I have looked into it because it sure would be nice to
fit into society more. I mean, there are a lot of non-health related
reasons why being thin would be nice. But, even the initial risks have
put me off. 2% of people who have that surgery die within 30 days. A
number of people have long term side effects too. Some people lose too
much weight. Some people have symptoms of malnutrion. Still, I am
looking forward to reading a long term study about how the surgery
effects people's health. The few studies I have read suggest that for
some people it might be an appropriate choice but others get less
benefit. I think it really depends on the individual.
resp:66 I have kind of decided that high fructose corn syrup is pretty
bad. It's being so common is an interesting thing though from a public
policy point of view. It has a lot to do with agricultural policy and
trade policy. Our government has tarrifs on imported cane sugar thus
making it more expensive while at the same time they have subsidies for
corn farmer which results in a corn surplus which makes high fructose
corn syrup much cheaper relative to cane sugar. I am not sure how sugar
beet sugar figured into all of that but really, it is quite interesting.
If I were still taking Econ classes, I would write a paper about it.
resp:67 Have you any evidence that airplane seats have gotten wider in
the past 25 years or so? Because I dont think they have gotten wider at
all. But yes, as people have gotten bigger, it has caused the airlines
to have to purchase more fuel and that probably has resulted in higher
airline fares although how much higher I dont know. Maybe it is just a
buck or two per ticket.
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cyklone
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response 69 of 378:
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Mar 6 23:39 UTC 2006 |
Well (although I think he knows it already) I wasn't making the analogy to
secondhand smoke as marcvh suggests. Nor was I commenting on insurance rates.
I am refering to things like the massive costs to consumers to upgrade things
like airplane seats, theater seats, etc. There are very real, though hidden,
costs of obesity being externalized on the non-obese. In a way, smokers are
more sympathetic insofar as they are already taxed in a big way. Whether or
not the government spends that money wisely is a separate issue, of course.
So maybe society needs to rething the whole idea of junk food taxes. Or maybe
a carb tax.
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tod
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response 70 of 378:
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Mar 6 23:45 UTC 2006 |
I think its par for the course to check out when someone gets an ice cream.
Its also pretty natural to look at people in public. And if they're big fat
people..and they have ice cream..yea, its not uncommon to check them out too.
One of the places I check people out is at the grocery store. Often, I'll
take a peak at someone's cart to see what they're getting and man if it isn't
just coincidence that the heavier folks tend to have alot of sugary cereal,
soda, chips, snacks, ice crea, and whatever. If it makes me a bastard for
noticing stuff like that so be it. None of my business is if they want to
eat ice cream with a bag over their head in the dark..but if they're next to
me on an elevator or standing in line at grocery checkout or heck even idling
at the stop light next to me in their minivan...its public. I'm not going
to stare at my shoelaces everytime I leave my house.
Now, I wouldn't exactly point and moo at somebody but at the same time if Big
Bertha blocks my sun at the beach while wearing a thong then I'm not one of
those "oh, pretend the pink elephant is invisible" types.
Society interacts. Feedback is part of that. People stare. Hell, I just got
off an elevator where some creepy guy stared at me the whole ride. I smiled
and he didn't smile back. It seems really rude but who knows..he didn't
assault me or anything.
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edina
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response 71 of 378:
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Mar 7 00:04 UTC 2006 |
Bariatric surgery is not a decision for everyone - and just to be clear - you
can put weight back on after having it (says she how has put back about 20
lbs.).
The risks never scared me that much. I figured I had just as much a chance
being hit by a car on M Street than I did from dying of that surgery. It's
part of the reason why I had so much pre-surgical testing - to see what might
be a problem. That being said, it's not for everyone.
I have a million thoughts on the morality associate with fatness. I think
that I wouldn't tolerate someone saying something in front of me eating a an
ice cream cone - but then, I'm a bitch on wheels sometimes - I might start
my list of comebacks with "Wit me, fat can be cured - with you, stupidity can
not".
Do I think yo-yoing is good? Of course not. Nor does any doctor. And I can
anecdotally back up Lynne's statement about doctors favoring weight over
cigarettes - my mom was told by her doctor that he didn't care if she put on
a little weight if she wasn't smoking. I think I sat up and really noticed
what my doctor was saying when he told me that I had hypertension, heart
disease, diabetes and arthritis in my family - the extra weight would not
help me, it could only hinder me.
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