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Grex > Agora46 > #131: New York City to open nation's first all-gay public high school in the fall | |
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| 25 new of 241 responses total. |
twenex
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response 47 of 241:
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Aug 2 09:25 UTC 2003 |
There's such a thing as TOO much political correctness? Yay! Somebody said
it! Better be careful of the Bleeding Heart Brigade, though.
Segregation can be a good thing if it's done properly. No-one worries in
England that kids will grow up unable to deal with Protestants or atheists
if they go to Catholic school, for example (which isn't to say there aren't
religious people who can't deal w/ atheists or vice versa).
I went to a segregated school, for kids with disabilities. They had me walking
within three months when previously i couldn't work at all, and by this time
I was five.
My parents had me transferred to a state (equivalent of US public) school,
though, when they found out that the special school hadn't taught me to read
until age 7. I remember teaching my class teacher how to use the computer (an
8-bit Acorn "BBC" computer specifically desinged for the educational market)
*after* she came back from a two-day training course on, you guessed it, how
to use computers. I was also top of the class in maths (which anyone who knew
me in mainstream school would have found laughable, if it weren't for the fact
that some of the kids had mental difficulties).
So segregated/special schools have advantages and disadvantages. If the NY
BoE think this is going to stop bullying, though, they are dreaming.
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lk
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response 48 of 241:
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Aug 2 10:52 UTC 2003 |
Straight teenagers will "out" themselves, pretend to be gay, just to go to
a school that may (or may not) be less crowded? Is that progress?
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/gayschool030728.html
"I think everybody feels that it's a good idea because some of the
kids who are gays and lesbians have been constantly harassed and
beaten in other schools," Mayor Michael Bloomberg said at a briefing
today. "It lets them get an education without having to worry. It
solves a discipline problem. And from a pedagogical point of view,
this administration and previous administrations have thought it
was a good idea and we'll continue with that."
The Harvey Milk school was actually begun in 1984. Teachers were paid by the
city but the Hetrick-Martin Institute bore most of the costs and managed it.
So there is 20 years worth of data and experience that I presume the NY BoE
is considering.
When the school first opened, it had a hard time getting teachers. Eventually
an ultra-Orthodox Jewish woman was asked to teach there, which caused her an
ethical dilemma. After discussing the matter first with her husband and then
with her Rabbi, she still was at a loss over what to do. So it was decided to
ask the learned and wise head Rabbi in Israel. Word came back as follows:
What? You have an opportunity to teach children that no one else
wants to teach? It's a mitzvah!
Which just goes to show us that you have to focus on what's really important.
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polytarp
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response 49 of 241:
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Aug 2 20:43 UTC 2003 |
You would say that, you fag.
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dcat
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response 50 of 241:
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Aug 4 21:51 UTC 2003 |
New York Times also had an editorial on the subject Sunday:
The needs of gay teenagers can best be served by making sure that they, like
all New York students, are able to attend regular public high schools in
safety, free from bullying. Organizers maintain they would be happy to see
applications from any student who wants to attend Harvey Milk, whatever his
or her sexual orientation, but the school's stated mission needs to reflect
that, in the same way that other small "boutique" schools around the city draw
students interested in particular careers, course work or unique learning
environments.
A school like Harvey Milk could also serve as a safe haven and short-term
solution for gay teenagers and others who are most traumatized by mistreatment
at their schools. In the long term, though, history has taught us the best
way to fight discrimination is to dismantle it where it occurs.
[http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/03/opinion/03SUN2.html?th]
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richard
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response 51 of 241:
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Aug 4 23:18 UTC 2003 |
re: #48...lk, the harvey milk "school" has never been a full fledged
school before. What you refer to was a "program", which offered
classes/services to gay students who were technically enrolled elsewhere.
There is a huge difference between a part time program and a full fledged
full time public school, which is what this is being expanded into.
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klg
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response 52 of 241:
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Aug 5 02:17 UTC 2003 |
Such as who gets to be quarterback on the football team?
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kami
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response 53 of 241:
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Aug 5 22:02 UTC 2003 |
I find the idea delightful- imagine what would happen to homophobia, if
"straight" kids started trying to "pass" as gay to get in... And more, what
would happen to *their* homophobia, in the long run, after spending a lot
of time discovering that gay teens are teens first...
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gull
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response 54 of 241:
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Aug 13 01:26 UTC 2003 |
Re #29: "Isn't it the job of the teachers and principal to address
bullies and school harrassment?"
Since you have to ask that question, I assume you never went to a public
school. Teachers and the administration turn a blind eye to harassment
because it helps them beat down the kids who are showing signs of being
different.
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happyboy
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response 55 of 241:
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Aug 13 06:41 UTC 2003 |
is that a fact?
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bru
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response 56 of 241:
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Aug 13 13:55 UTC 2003 |
re 54 BZZZT! Wrong answer!
You are forgetting that most teachers are liberals and as such believe in free
thought and fredom of action. No, that isn't right either.
I think most teachers would intervene if they knew there was a problem. They
do not have time to see the problem, nor to deal with every problem. Kids
have to grow up learning to deal with these problems on their own, even
interveneing themselves if they see a problem no one is handling. The
teachers can't do it all, and niether can the parents.
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edina
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response 57 of 241:
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Aug 13 16:40 UTC 2003 |
While I agree that school is a place to learn how to handle your own problems,
I also see it as a place where they should learn period. If that is being
jeapordized because of whatever, an intervention must be made.
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tod
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response 58 of 241:
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Aug 13 17:15 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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gull
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response 59 of 241:
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Aug 13 18:58 UTC 2003 |
Re #56: Maybe where you lived teachers were mostly liberals, but most of
mine were conservative. Some of them even ranted at length about what
those dirty liberals were doing to the country.
Re #58: Well, I can only speak from my own experience. Teachers didn't
care how much I got teased, but when I got frustrated and lashed out in
retaliation I invariably got in trouble. Eventually I figured out that
trying to stick up for myself just made things worse, and just took it.
It's a lesson I learned too well; to this day I have a lot of trouble
sticking up for myself in situations where I've been wronged.
Incidentally, anyone who says "if you ignore it, it'll stop" is full of
shit. People who say that were clearly never teased as children.
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tod
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response 60 of 241:
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Aug 13 19:03 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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novomit
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response 61 of 241:
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Aug 13 19:07 UTC 2003 |
Re 58: I agree. It won't pass. Same thing happened to me.
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happyboy
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response 62 of 241:
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Aug 13 19:08 UTC 2003 |
re59: tough shit, fatso.
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gull
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response 63 of 241:
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Aug 13 21:46 UTC 2003 |
Re #60: Yeah, pretty much. It helped that a lot of the kids who were
doing it either had rich, well-respected parents or were on the football
team, the two things that will guarantee you kid gloves treatment in any
small town school. There wasn't a lot my parents could do about it, really.
And no, I don't really think an "all gay" school is a great idea either.
But I heard people saying that it's the teachers' jobs to make sure
kids like that are treated with tolerance, and while that might
technically be their job it just doesn't happen in the real world.
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tod
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response 64 of 241:
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Aug 13 22:01 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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bru
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response 65 of 241:
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Aug 14 00:51 UTC 2003 |
Yeah, I should have gone into Football instead of wrestling and baseball.
Coach was real upset cause he was a good freind of my fathers adn was
expecting me to be in that front line. tough. And yes the Football team got
the glory. WE were the number one class C team in the nation at one time,
with the longest winning streak in history.
And I had to put up with my share of bullies. I got in two fights that I can
recall and lost both. But I never let the bullies win. You learn to stand
your ground, take your licks, adn move on. If you don't, you won't survive.
Sure it hurts, and you will suffer with decisions you make all thru life.
I still hurt to think about a decision I made in grade school that hurt a
girls feelings. It was stupid, it wasn't worth anything in the long run, but
it still bothers me from time to time. (she gave me a present for christmas,
adn I traded it with another student for something I liked better. She found
out and was extremely hurt by it. She had put a lot of thought into buying
that 3 dollar model for me.)
SO get over it doesn't make it. You still have to learn to live with it.
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janc
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response 66 of 241:
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Aug 14 05:32 UTC 2003 |
Actually, I think how much you get teased does depend on your behavior. I
went all the way through public school with a feminine first name, and almost
never got teased. Occasionally someone would try, it would fall flat and that
would be the end of it. I knew a kid with a substantially less weird name who
got teased nonstop about it. (Hmmm, I guess he survived - he seems to be
an associate professor in biochemistry at McGill.) However, I don't think
this is useful information for a person being teased. I'm not sure it's a
learnable skill. I just always believed that anyone trying to tease me
about my name was making an obvious idiot of themselves, and I believed it
with absolute conviction, so it was true.
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polytarp
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response 67 of 241:
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Aug 14 10:17 UTC 2003 |
AHAHA< I JUST NOTICED: WHILE GLOSSING OVER THESE POSTS< LETTING SOME WORDS
GET IN MY MIND AND JUMBLED UP: JAN HAS A GIRL"S NAME! AHAHAHa, HEY< JAN<
WHAT
"S WITH YOUR GIRLS" Name>
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gull
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response 68 of 241:
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Aug 14 14:32 UTC 2003 |
Re #65: Standing my ground got me suspended on one occasion, and
detention on others, and quickly got me labelled as a troublemaker. I
learned my lessons after that: 1. People in authority don't care about
fairness, and 2. Sticking up for myself just makes things worse.
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tod
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response 69 of 241:
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Aug 14 16:45 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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jep
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response 70 of 241:
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Aug 17 03:14 UTC 2003 |
I was also teased a lot as a kid. I was beat up as a kid on a regular
basis. For two years in elementary school, I did all that I could to
refuse to go outside during recess, prefering to stay inside and read,
because I didn't get hit when I was inside reading. I was *forced* to
go outside, and then I got beat up. No one did anything to help me.
Not the teachers, the playground supervisors, the principal, my
parents, no one. I was supposed to figure it out for myself. (And I
did. I got older. It hasn't happened again since I graduated from
high school.)
However, that was a long time ago. It doesn't work that way any
more. My 1st grader, in Clinton, kissed another 1st grader last year,
with her approval and consent, and was talked to by the principal.
They don't allow physical contact between kids at all on the
playground. They don't allow teasing, either.
Things are a lot better on school playgrounds, in my opinion.
But it has nothing to do with high schools at all. I can't imagine
high schools can effectively monitor social interactions between
students. Maybe I'm wrong... if they can't, as I suspect, I can see
why New York might experiment with a high school for gay students.
As someone who had some bad school experiences, I can say just about
any alternative would have been better for me. I would do just about
anything to prevent my son from having to live through what I did.
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keesan
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response 71 of 241:
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Aug 18 05:08 UTC 2003 |
How can you play games without physical contact? What do kids do during
recess?
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