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25 new of 79 responses total.
gelinas
response 46 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 06:43 UTC 2003

I'd guess dissertations have been written on the first question, and
every one comes to a different conclusion.

I'd say that relatives are important, but a significant portion of the
population is sufficiently mobile that relaties aren't around.

Moving out as a teenager, after high school, is not unusual, but not seeing
parents for several years _is_ unusual.  Well, not maintaining contact
is unusual; the aforementioned mobility can interfere with physical visits.
scg
response 47 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 07:00 UTC 2003

There's very little I could tell you about porn, but even if I knew a lot more
about porn than I do, I imagine it wouldn't be the footwear that I would have
been paying attention to. ;)

I'm not sure what you mean about seeing parents "after 5-10 years."  A lot
of people move out of their parents' houses when done with high school, or
soon thereafter, in order to go to college or otherwise live their own lives
once they're old enough to not need to be taken care of on a daily basis. 
On the other hand, a lot of Americans make it well into their 20s (or
occasionally longer) living with their parents, either out of being happy with
the arrangement, or inertia, or inability to afford housing of their own. 
As for the "see them after 5-10 years" part, when I lived in the same city
as my parents I used to see them at least once a week, and often more.  Now
that I live a few thousand miles away from them, I still see them several
times a year and talk to them on the phone at least once a week.  I don't
think that's atypical.

A lot of people attempt to care for their elderly relatives themselves, and
a lot of people put their elderly relatives into facilities where they can
be cared for by professionals.  I suspect both have their advantages and
disadvantages for those being cared for and their younger, healthier,
relatives.  I don't know which is more common.

I don't think kids having sex at age 13 or 14 is all that common.  At least
among kids I knew at that age, I think people were still trying to figure out
steps less than that.  Among 15 and 16 year olds, my impression is it's a lot
less common than most 15 and 16 year olds tend to think it is.  But maybe I'm
way off.
twenex
response 48 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 10:01 UTC 2003

Re: 41.9: We (or rather, y'all) can take jokes and laugh at [y]ourselves when
[you] need to ? Define, "when we need to".
md
response 49 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 14:06 UTC 2003

Re truth vs. movie myths:

New York City is neither a bright bustling joyful metropolis nor a 
filthy greedy violent hell-hole.  Also, the main thing that even the 
most accurate movie depiction of midtown Manhattan can't tell you is: 
what it smells like.

Most US drug-dealers, murderers, pimps and prostitutes are white.  

Most Italian-Americans are not in the Mafia.

Most Jewish Americans are indistinguishable from most other Americans.

Rachael Leigh Cook wearing glasses wouldn't actually be considered 
unattractive in the US, as she was in the movie "She's All That."
cross
response 50 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 15:12 UTC 2003

This response has been erased.

mynxcat
response 51 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 15:35 UTC 2003

I do tend to agree with the theory that because divorce is so easy, it's
easier to hit the eject button, so to speak, when the marriage hits a rough
patch. You see so many people get married too young, barely out of their teens
because they think they're in love, and think that marriage is going to be
a bed of roses. At the first sign of the prickly patch, they think it'snot
working, and bail out. That's pretty sad but it happens. Sometimes you hit
a hard patch, you need to work it out. But by making divorce so readily
available, you're also breeding a bunch of people who think it's a good enough
solution to their problems. 

I think the ease of divorce is also the reason that so many people get married
without really exploring the whole concept. Not saying everybody, but I'm
guessing a significant number. Geting married at an early age is all great
and stuff if you're willing to stick through the hard times. And when you're
19, you don't believe you could ever have a fight. 

Divorce is one of those necessary evils. You do need it, for cases when it's
warranted. But it has the ability to be misused so easily.
jep
response 52 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 16:53 UTC 2003

My brother lives in Tennessee and avoids contact with my parents other 
than a visit or two per year.  He doesn't contact me a lot, either.  
However, my parents and I see each other about weekly.  We live about 
60 miles apart.  We're in nearly daily contact via the Internet.

I believe both my parents, and I, would rather they lived in an 
assisted-living center rather than have them move in with me.  There'd 
be no question, if there were ever a need, they could move in with me.
mary
response 53 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 17:13 UTC 2003

This response has been erased.

mary
response 54 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 17:36 UTC 2003

I'd rather see divorce be easier, not harder, maybe
having all marriage contracts be for a set number of
years, say five.  The basic disolution contract could
be agreed to at the time of the marriage.

At the end of the five years the contract could be 
renewed if both partners were in agreement.  This would
keep everyone on their toes, looking for ways to 
keep the relationship thriving, instead of one or
both partners feeling tenured, and complacent.

Would this result in more divorces?  Most certainly.
Would more good marriages fail?  Doubt it.

I wouldn't want to be in a marriage where I wasn't loved
and respected.  Nor would I want to feel stuck with
a partner I didn't love or respect.  Five years 
seems about right to evaluate if the partnership is
working.  Bad marriages happen.  Be as gentle on yourself
and those in the fallout zone as you can be.  Learn from your 
mistakes.  Avoid playing the victim and move on.
mary
response 55 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 17:38 UTC 2003

Er, dissolution.
glenda
response 56 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 18:04 UTC 2003

STeve and I have a contract marriage.  We contracted for 300 years.  It has
been a running joke throughout the 21 years we've been together.  One of the
few things that made him smile right after the Drs confirmed that he had a
stroke was my leaning over and whispering in his ear that he just had to be
ok because he had 281 years left in the contract and I was holding him to it.
jep
response 57 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 19:32 UTC 2003

re resp:54: It sounds great.  Except that you can't conceive and raise 
kids in 5 years.
keesan
response 58 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 20:08 UTC 2003

I personally don't know of any divorces that occured due to wife abuse.  Jim
was in an abusive marriage for ten years but stayed married because he wanted
to raise children.  At the time divorced men lost their childen (every other
Thursday visits is not raising children) and also had to pay 1/4 to 1/3 of
their income to the person who stole their children.

Re visiting twice a year, that does not sound to me like jep's brother is
avoiding contact.  I visited once a year at most but wrote frequently.
sj2
response 59 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 20:24 UTC 2003

In India, physical abuse in a marriage would probably be as common as 
it is in the US or anywhere else in the world. The reason for low 
divorce rate is mostly social pressure, social stigma attached to 
divorce and considerable difficulty in getting remarried.

An example is if you lookup matrimonial ads put up bu divorced Indians. 
Nearly each one of them says "Innocent divorcee looking .....". 
Innocent bcoz the society treats divorce as a fault of one/both the 
partners.

Strange, but true!! Hehe.


janc
response 60 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 20:41 UTC 2003

I agree that most divorces are not about abuse.  But if more people were
stuck in relationships that weren't working for them, then some of those
non-abusive, unhappy relationships might well develop into abusive
relationships.  I think a bad relationship is more likely to get worse
than it is to get better if you "stick it out".  You know, you only get
one life.  Should you devote it to trying to make a marriage work with
some person that you don't even like anymore, much less love?

Children certainly change the equation.  But I think not as dramatically
as people used to think.  I think every American who doesn't have
divorced parents themselves at least has numerous friends with divorced
parents.  We know from personal experience that divorce isn't great for
kids, but it isn't disasterous either.  I think that often a divorce in
a family with kids is harder for the parents than for the kids.
cross
response 61 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 23:50 UTC 2003

This response has been erased.

mynxcat
response 62 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 3 00:22 UTC 2003

Dan brings up a good point. The whole concept of karma is very strong in
India, especially the rural parts. If you're having a bad marriage,it's most
probably of the bad deeds you performed in earlier lives. Of course, this
logic seems to apply only to women. You'll hear a lot of "this is what my fate
is" and the like, from women who will not get a divorce. Anf then there are
monetary factors, which are almost as great in determining whether one should
get a divorce. How will I support myself and my children...
russ
response 63 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 3 01:22 UTC 2003

Re #42:  CGI toddlers will follow the script, and they can be made
to perform as many takes a day as the director demands.  Child labor
laws do not yet apply to CGI toddlers (a glaring oversight IMHO).
jep
response 64 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 3 02:34 UTC 2003

CGI toddlers?

Ah, you mean computer generated images of toddlers.  In the context of 
the rest of the day's discussion, you threw me for a loop, Russ.
polygon
response 65 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 3 03:25 UTC 2003

When free legal aid is first provided to a community of poor people, the
first thing that happens is that they all get divorced.  Seriously.  It
turned out (at the time the legal aid infrastructure was first being
put together in the 1960s and 1970s) that there was a tremendous pent-up
demand for divorce among people who didn't think they could afford the
legal fees and so on.

I once read a sardonic essay by a conservative political columnist
reviewing a video which gave instructions on how to become a porn star. 
Among the helpful hints he mentioned was one about always bringing your
own footwear to a photo shoot, because the floor or ground underneath
gets, um, soiled with stuff you wouldn't want to step in.
russ
response 66 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 3 20:13 UTC 2003

Re #64:  Thank goodness it was only a loop.  If you went into
infinite recursion, stack overflow and crash, I'd never forgive
myself!
jaklumen
response 67 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 4 04:50 UTC 2003

I still think divorce happens because people don't fully understand 
what they are getting into-- and haven't fully prepared for it, don't 
know what they want, don't have realistic expectations, and don't 
realize that marriage is constant work.  I'd say preparing for 
marriage begins way back in the preteen years in a gradual and slow 
process.  I've explained it before and don't feel like explaining it 
all again.  But I'll still say a good marriage is a well-thought out 
labor of love that is not by any means taken lightly.  (And granted, I 
admit you might not get it on the first try.)

resp:45 (6) With so many hormones kicking in, and bodies starting to 
change, should a person really be making decisions this early about 
sexuality?  Nothing has stabilized yet?  Granted, quite a few people I 
know have had these sorts of feelings, so to speak, from the childhood 
years, but it seems lately that this is more a product of the very 
late modern era-- i.e. in the years when homosexuality could be spoken 
of a little more freely in the U.S.  Whether this is due to supposed 
lessening of social pressure, or society's greater emphasis on sex, 
one cannot tell, but *I* do somewhat suspect the latter somewhat.  
Even the experts admit sexuality is not perfectly fixed, and again, I 
have trouble accepting a confirmation made when hormones are not in 
balance.   The 'coming out' age used to be more around the early 
twenties or so, but again, the debate could be made over sexual 
maturity or social freedoms given around that age.
md
response 68 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 4 13:12 UTC 2003

Another truth about the USA that isn't always evident in the movies is 
that the USA has been coasting for at least thirty years now.  The mass 
and velocity were so enormous to start with that it's taking forever to 
coast to a stop.  There are occasional little bumps like 9/11 and 
the "dot-com implosion" that reduce the momentum slightly, and there 
are compensatory jolts of force like the rise of the African American 
educated middle class.  But, on balance, the machine that was moving 
the whole thing along is no longer powerful enough to do so.  

The machine, of course, is human practical intelligence, what used to 
be called "American ingenuity" (although there is nothing 
especially "American" about it).  There are a million theories about 
why it lost its power in the USA: liberal humanists blame the know-
nothing Christian Right, intellectuals blame degraded public education, 
Ayn Randites blame the rise of unreason, feminists blame testosterone, 
conservatives blame the tax-and-spend mentality, religious 
fundamentalists blame godlessness, snobs blame popular culture.  Insert 
your pet theory here.  These are all related, and there might even be 
truth in some of them.  
janc
response 69 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 4 13:49 UTC 2003

Don't completely agree.  I think that the rise of the internet was a
definite example of some spark-plugs still firing.  And though it wasn't
entirely an American thing (it never is), it was in many fundamental
ways an American development.  And .com bust or no, the internet is here
to stay.
remmers
response 70 of 79: Mark Unseen   Aug 4 15:30 UTC 2003

Playing devil's advocate just a bit:  Wasn't most of the fundamental
research that made the internet possible done 30+ years ago, consistent
with Michael's timeline in #68?
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