|
Grex > Agora56 > #105: State: Wal-Mart must carry emergency contraception | |
|
| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 526 responses total. |
nharmon
|
|
response 456 of 526:
| 
Mar 8 04:07 UTC 2006 |
According to Merriam Webster, you can add "broad-minded" to the
definition of liberal. I believe Michael Moore was narrow-minded in his
making of Bowling for Columbine. For example, he tries to show (and
fails miserably) how firearms were used to supress minorities, but does
not show how minorities were able to use firearms to protect themselves
from racist violence. He attempts to portray the NRA as a racist
organization, but casually ignores the mountain of evidence to the
contrary....facts like a majority of the NRA's first presidents were
former Union military generals, including Grant...or other facts like
some of the first NRA chapters in the south were formed by blacks. When
Moore was displaying statistics of firearm-related homocides in various
countries he used different criteria, and data from different years. For
USA statistics he included accidental firearm deaths and cases of
justifiable homocide.
I can go on and on and on... But the fact still remains that GUESS WHAT:
Narrow-mindedness is a trait found in liberal extremists as well as
conservative extremists.
|
rcurl
|
|
response 457 of 526:
|
Mar 8 05:56 UTC 2006 |
Excuse me...but when "firearms were used to supress minorities" it was an
oppression of civil rights, while when "minorities were able to use
firearms to protect themselves" it was justifiable self defense, but what
has this to do with Moore's liberal credentials?
And all I recall of his portrayal of the NRA was their support of easy
access to guns, to the extent they were given away as gifts for opening a
bank account, and the US has the highest level of gun violence in the
civilized world. And how was omitting NRA chapters formed by blacks of any
particular significance in regard to Moore's liberal credentials?
You are arguing against perhaps some sloppy and even slanted episode
choices, but none of that detracts from his liberal credentials. Which
element in the definition of liberal are you claiming he violated?
Re #455: then don't read it.
|
twenex
|
|
response 458 of 526:
|
Mar 8 13:23 UTC 2006 |
I can believe that MM is narrow-minded in some ways, but that doesn't mean
I have to disagree with his politics.
|
nharmon
|
|
response 459 of 526:
|
Mar 8 13:37 UTC 2006 |
> Which element in the definition of liberal are you claiming he
> violated?
Did you even read the first sentence of what you were responding to? Or
other posts where I said that Michael Moore violated the BROAD-MINDED
definition of liberal.
Here is it again: Michael Moore violated the BROAD-MINDED definition of
liberal.
The proof is that one can conclude that his "documentaries" were not
BROAD-MINDED, but very NARROW-MINDED constructs based on his perception
BEFORE he began investigating. I mean, if a detective was investigating
a murder and had already made up his mind about who the murderer was
before finding any evidence, and focused said investigation on solely
finding evidence against said suspect, would you consider him BROAD-
MINDED, or NARROW-MINDED?
> I can believe that MM is narrow-minded in some ways, but that doesn't
> mean I have to disagree with his politics.
That isn't the point. I am simply refuting Rane's statement about there
not being any liberals who don't fit the definition of liberal.
|
rcurl
|
|
response 460 of 526:
|
Mar 8 16:54 UTC 2006 |
I disagree with your characterization of MM as "narrow-minded". He
performed a broad-minded public service by bringing the behavior of the
NRA to public notice. What nharmon wrote in #459 failed to be specific in
providing any evidence, just an accusation, in answering the question of "
Which element in the definition of liberal are you claiming he violated?"
- it was just a diatribe about indefinite accusations of mindedness.
If you want narrow-mindedness, just look to the NRA itself.
|
klg
|
|
response 461 of 526:
|
Mar 8 17:34 UTC 2006 |
(Reading through these posts, I have had a difficult time containing my
laughter.)
Curl - Before I waste more time responding to your questions, please
tell us what you define as a "political liberal." I don't know if you
mean elected/appointed government officials or people who are directly
involved in elections as candidates or people who are involved in
elections, but not as candidates or advisors to any of the previous
groups or people who are involve in organizations that attempt to
influence public opinion or people who individually attempt to
influence public opinion or etc.
|
rcurl
|
|
response 462 of 526:
|
Mar 8 18:21 UTC 2006 |
I intended to mean persons elected to office. Those are who the
right-wingers are usually attacking as "liberals". The question is, what
specific violations of the definition of "liberal" have been committed by
elected officials others have identified as liberal and who accept that
designation? This is to find the extent to which the dictionary definition
of "liberal" applies as used and accepted.
|
richard
|
|
response 463 of 526:
|
Mar 8 18:39 UTC 2006 |
You know there are also "liberal republicans", although that wing of the GOP
is admittedly dying. Lowell Weicker, the former Connecticut Senator, was a
liberal republican.
|
nharmon
|
|
response 464 of 526:
|
Mar 8 18:56 UTC 2006 |
Stupid comments like #460 really annoy me. He says I failed to point
out specific examples in 459, when THEY'RE IN FUCKING #456!
Rane, you are a perfect example of a closed-minded liberal. You ask
people to cite things, and then totally ignore them when they do. You
go even further, and ATTACK people for not giving you examples, when
they HAVE.
Instead of trying to boast liberalism, why don't you teach by example?
|
klg
|
|
response 465 of 526:
|
Mar 8 20:06 UTC 2006 |
Examples are provided below.
Nancy Pelosi: "Free from bondage to creed" - You mean that you can't
predict with near 100% certainty what liberals are going to say before
they say it???
Harry Reid: "Free from Narrowness . . .Progressive" - liberals appear
to be stuck in the past, afraid to consider new approaches to problems
they have been unable to solve with the same-old same-old.
Edward Kennedy: "Generous heart" - Much of the liberal agenda seems to
be associated with ways to keep the poor dependent on government
handouts, rather than providing them with true opportunities to improve
their stations
in life.
John Kerry: "As opposed to aristocratic" - generally, liberal
congressmen & senators don't appear to be any less rich or less haughty
than conservatives.
Ronnie Earl: "Popular" - Texans have been voting 59% Republican, but
the Democrats have been doing everything they can to assure that the
voting districts send a 60% Democratic delegation to Congress.
|
richard
|
|
response 466 of 526:
|
Mar 9 00:45 UTC 2006 |
klg is the only person in the entire country who thinks Harry Reid is
liberal. He is far from it.
also klg provides examples but not sources. how do we know he didn't
make those quotes up in #465? I think rcurl probably doesn't regard
an example as a "legitimate example" when you don't cite sources. One
of those pet peeves of high academia ya know ;)
|
klg
|
|
response 467 of 526:
|
Mar 9 01:29 UTC 2006 |
Hahahah hoo-hahaha. Oh me, oh my. You're killing me, RW. Those quotes
I "made up" are from Curl's definition of "liberal." I can't take it no
more. Keep 'em comin, babe.
Reid s Liberal Voting Record Speaks For Itself:
Deseret News: Reid Is One Of The Most Liberal Members Of Congress.
(Lee Davidson, More LDS Members In Congress Than Ever Before: 17,
Deseret News, 11/18/98)
After Losing A Senate Bid In 1974, Reid Ruefully Concluded, Nevada
Isn t As Liberal As We Thought. (Thomas B. Edsall, Balancing
Nevada, National Interests, The Washington Post, 2/1/05)
Reid s Most Recent Overall National Journal Rating Was Farther To The
Left Than Liberal Icons Such As Sens. Chris Dodd (D-CT), Chuck Schumer
(D-NY), And Joe Biden (D-DE). (National Journal Website,
nationaljournal.com , Accessed 12/3/04)
* According To Non-Partisan National Journal, Reid Was More Liberal
On Economic Issues Than Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA). (National Journal
Website, nationaljournal.com, Accessed 12/3/04)
* According To Non-Partisan National Journal, Reid Was More Liberal
On Foreign Policy Issues Than Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) And Sen. Hillary
Clinton (D-NY). (National Journal Website, nationaljournal.com, Accessed
12/4/04)
From 1991-2004, Reid And Former Sen. Tom Daschle (D-SD) Voted Together
87% Of The Time. (CQ Vote Analysis, Performed 1/31/05)
* In The 102nd Congress, Reid Voted With Daschle 81% Of The Time.
(CQ Vote Analysis, Performed 1/31/05)
* In The 103rd Congress, Reid Voted With Daschle 87% Of The Time.
(CQ Vote Analysis, Performed 1/31/05)
* In The 104th Congress, Reid Voted With Daschle 80% Of The Time.
(CQ Vote Analysis, Performed 1/31/05)
* In The 105th Congress, Reid Voted With Daschle 86% Of The Time.
(CQ Vote Analysis, Performed 1/31/05)
* In The 106th Congress, Reid Voted With Daschle 91% Of The Time.
(CQ Vote Analysis, Performed 1/31/05)
* In The 107th Congress, Reid Voted With Daschle 93% Of The Time.
(CQ Vote Analysis, Performed 1/31/05)
* In The 108th Congress, Reid Voted With Daschle 94% Of The Time.
(CQ Vote Analysis, Performed 1/31/05)
Harry Reid Has A 76 Lifetime Rating From The Ultra-Liberal Americans For
Democratic Action. (ADA Website, www.adaction.org/ , Accessed 1/11/05)
* Reid Has A Dismal Lifetime Rating Of 21 From The American
Conservative Union. (ACU Website, acuratings.com/ , Accessed 1/24/05)
Reid Has A 90% Lifetime Rating From AFL-CIO. (AFL-CIO Website,
www.afl-cio.org , Accessed 1/24/05)
Reid Has An 89% Lifetime Rating From AFSCME. (SEIU Website,
www.afscme.org , Accessed 1/24/05)
Reid Received A Lackluster 34% Lifetime Rating From U.S. Chamber Of
Commerce. (U.S. Chamber Of Commerce Website, How They Voted
Scorecards, www.uschamber.com , Accessed 12/2/04)
|
rcurl
|
|
response 468 of 526:
|
Mar 9 02:31 UTC 2006 |
So, you are proving that Reid fits the definition of liberal? Let's review
that again:
liberal (adj). 1. Possessing or manifesting a free and generous heart;
bountiful. 2. Appropriate or fitting for a broad and enlightened mind. 3.
Free from narrowness, bigotry, or bondage to authority or creed, as in
religion; inclined to democratic or republican ideas, as opposed to
monarchical or aristocratic, as in politics; broad, popular, progressive.
and KLG gave of his example of Reid not following the definition as
"Harry Reid: "Free from Narrowness . . .Progressive" - liberals appear to
be stuck in the past, afraid to consider new approaches to problems they
have been unable to solve with the same-old same-old."
Well, that's some vacuous accusations, but none of it pertains to the fit
between Reid and the definition. He considers new approaches whenever
there is an opportunity to do so. Of course, the conservatives
(illiberals) in Congress crush anything that is new, or even progressive.
You've been hoisted on your own petard, KLG.
|
keesan
|
|
response 469 of 526:
|
Mar 9 04:10 UTC 2006 |
Rane, will you please stop posting that definition?
|
rcurl
|
|
response 470 of 526:
|
Mar 9 05:55 UTC 2006 |
No.
|
happyboy
|
|
response 471 of 526:
|
Mar 9 09:32 UTC 2006 |
thank you.
|
jep
|
|
response 472 of 526:
|
Mar 9 13:49 UTC 2006 |
Rane's definition of "liberal" is not the political definition. It is
a personality type. There are many political conservatives who fit all
of Rane's criteria, and many political liberals who don't fit any of
them.
The two words are homonyms. Rane's equating the two is like equating
the rough surface of a stucco wall with orange roughy, the edible
fish. It's obviously irrelevant and obviously based on, or intended to
create, confusion. It was entertaining once, years and years ago, but
has long since lost it's novelty for all of us but one.
|
bru
|
|
response 473 of 526:
|
Mar 9 14:03 UTC 2006 |
no, I think he actually believes it. I think he also believe the illiberal
applies to all conservatives.
|
nharmon
|
|
response 474 of 526:
|
Mar 9 14:30 UTC 2006 |
Rane seems to either be extremely closed-minded, or trolling. For
someone who is well educated, he brings very little new knowledge into
discussions. Instead, he just copies and pastes things, and reiterates
democratic talking points. And when confronted with contradicting
information, he just reiterates democratic talking points. He's gotten
to the point where even Sindi is sick of reading his definition of
liberal!
I think we would be better off if people stopped copying their
respective party leaders and tried to think for themselves for once.
And when you come to a different conclusion than your party, I wish you
would have the integrity to stand by what you believe and not tow the
party line. This applies to people like RC and RW as well as KLG.
|
richard
|
|
response 475 of 526:
|
Mar 9 16:35 UTC 2006 |
to portray reid as a liberal, klg quotes very conservative media. The
National Journal is a well known right wing publication. Of course you are
going to find right wing media that will say that ANY democrat is a liberal.
Get better sources than that. Reid is center to right, he is an NRA member,
he is pro-life.
|
klg
|
|
response 476 of 526:
|
Mar 9 17:13 UTC 2006 |
Then why does he check with moveon.org before he says anything?
And, if Reid is "center to right," what do you call Lieberman and
Nelson?
And, Curl, as far as I am concerned, you can post your "liberal"
definition every hour on the hour. If I decide I don't want to read
it, I won't. It really isn't that hard to do.
|
keesan
|
|
response 477 of 526:
|
Mar 9 20:07 UTC 2006 |
I am going to skim past any posting with that definition in it.
|
klg
|
|
response 478 of 526:
|
Mar 9 20:39 UTC 2006 |
You go, girl!
|
happyboy
|
|
response 479 of 526:
|
Mar 9 22:36 UTC 2006 |
you go ostrich!
|
richard
|
|
response 480 of 526:
|
Mar 10 01:39 UTC 2006 |
Lieberman is center to right on foreign policy, and liberal on social
issues.
Nelson is center to right.
Not all democrats are liberals and not all republicans are
conservatives klg, or didnt you know that?
|