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Grex > Oldcoop > #376: The problems with Grex, e-mail and spam | |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 480 responses total. |
kingjon
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response 439 of 480:
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Feb 28 01:35 UTC 2007 |
In "IP address" I meant to include "domain name." Like I said, with pine, which
includes an extensive internal setup feature, it should be unnecessary to edit
.pinerc by hand.
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keesan
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response 440 of 480:
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Feb 28 03:00 UTC 2007 |
Apparently IMAP works by having the mail go some place else but reading it
here. So I would have to forward any mail from here to there and then read
it here? To configure pine for IMAP setup/config Z. It is much simpler to
just edit a .procmailrc file and probably catches more spam than fastmail.
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ball
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response 441 of 480:
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Feb 28 03:36 UTC 2007 |
IMAP, like POP3 is a protocol for retrieving mail from a
server somewhere. If I remember correctly, IMAP is a bit
more flexible in that it provides your mail user agent (in
your case PINE) with the option to scan headers and delete
messages without automatically fetching the entire message
from the server. Whether PINE takes advantage of that
facility is a separate question. Hopefully someone here will
correct me if I'm wrong.
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kingjon
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response 442 of 480:
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Feb 28 11:57 UTC 2007 |
#441 is, as far as I know about pine and IMAP, correct.
Re #440: Pine can handle multiple incoming mailboxes, so you don't need to
forward mail from anywhere to anywhere. Just add whatever address and port you
are given to your "incoming folders collection", as pine calls it.
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keesan
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response 443 of 480:
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Feb 28 17:25 UTC 2007 |
Would someone like Jonathan be willing to set up a free account at fastmail.fm
and figure out how to read mail at it with pine at grex? It is beyond me.
But I am already getting 2 spams a day there from the same stock spam place
(gifs advertising some stock). I would still need to use a filter here to
filter on anything with a .gif, or pay fastmail for better spam filtering.
It is easier to just use .procmailrc.
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kingjon
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response 444 of 480:
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Feb 28 18:40 UTC 2007 |
I'd be willing to (not this moment, as I've got class soon). I won't do it at
Grex, since I don't use pine on Grex, but pine should be the same anywhere.
I'll reply with my results when I have any.
In my original response I didn't specify pine because pine is not the only tool
in the arsenal for getting mail from somewhere. It is to be preferred if you
want to use their space rather than your space for storing the mail, but you
could use fetchmail or some other IMAP client to download the mail and use
whatever tool you please here (including passing it through procmail).
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cross
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response 445 of 480:
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Feb 28 19:13 UTC 2007 |
I think it might be more profitable to set up an account on gmail, which
probably has much better spam protection.
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cross
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response 446 of 480:
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Feb 28 19:14 UTC 2007 |
Regarding #441; The POP protocol has most of those functions, as well....
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keesan
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response 447 of 480:
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Feb 28 20:26 UTC 2007 |
I just spent about 20 minutes trying to sign up for a google account using
the lynx (latest) on my own computer. I could not find a link to the image
you needed to type in to verify. I downloaded the .wav file and tried typing
in the numbers I heard (against a ridiculously noisy background). I mailed
asking them to email me to help. Then I broke down and used Opera to sign
up. I could access my account with lynx and it took 30 seconds from the
time I typed in the URL to read my mail. Since I have lynx set to number al
links, I could type 10 for Compose, and 30 for send (or whatever they are).
It sent in a couple of seconds. My ISP webmail can take 20 sec to delete
mails. I have not tested google this way.
I then tested access to pine. If I am already at grex it takes about 2
seconds. If I am not at grex, it took 10 sec to ssh here and enter my
password and type pine and i to see a list of my mails (less if I had fewer
mails in the inbox, more on a really slow day).
I added another To: line to my .procmailrc to dump any mails to koresh,
and another couple lines to send any mail about pills or girlfriend to the
spam folder.
Lynx can handle https sites (you need a cert.pem).
I then accessed my inbox with Opera. 46 seconds. With Opera set to not
display any images (but I think it still downloads them).
The conclusion is that pine at grex is much faster to access via modem,
(2 sec if I am already at grex), lynx takes 30 sec, and opera takes 40 sec
(plus another 30-40 sec to load X and opera). On my fastest computer.
Firefox or Mozilla take twice as long to load as Opera.
Pine being faster than Google to access (with lynx or opera).
Fastmail.fm took 10 seconds to access with lynx (on my computer, in all
cases). Probably less if I set lynx to access fastmail cookies.
Google took 30 sec with lynx. Fastmail is getting 2 spams a day now.
Links indeed does not access gmail though the SSL part works. (The links at
grex does SSL).
How would someone read google mail using pine at lynx?
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cross
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response 448 of 480:
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Feb 28 20:32 UTC 2007 |
So now that you have a gmail account, try to get pine to pull email out of
it using POP.
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kingjon
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response 449 of 480:
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Feb 28 20:50 UTC 2007 |
#445: I have a gmail account, but it only has POP and additionally makes
messages disappear from POP once read via that method.
#446: The difference seems to me to be that IMAP is intended for managing
mailboxes remotely, while POP seems intended for simple mail retrieval.
The first "definition" Google finds for "IMAP" is as follows:
"(Internet Message Access Protocol) IMAP is gradually replacing POP as the main
protocol used by email clients in communicating with email servers. Using IMAP
an email client program can not only retrieve email but can also manipulate
message stored on the server, without having to actually retrieve the messages.
So messages can be deleted, have their status changed, multiple mail boxes can
be managed, etc."
I have now created a fastmail.fm account. Their "Pine" configuration entry is
overly confusing -- as keesan noted, it tells you what keystrokes to use in vi,
which is unforgiving, and likely some stray command keystrokes slipped in when
she used pico. The "I know how to set up SMTP/POP/IMAP myself ..." FAQ entry is
much more revealing. I'll enter detailed instructions when I get back to my
dorm room, where I have pine set up (I'm typing this from the computer science
Unix lab) and can substitute fastmail's IMAP server for Calvin's and post. That
will include both fastmail IMAP and Gmail POP; as Dan said in #445, Gmail
probably has better spam protection, and I add that it is entirely free unlike
fastmail which reserves some features for those who pay.
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kingjon
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response 450 of 480:
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Feb 28 20:51 UTC 2007 |
447 and 448 slipped.
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cross
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response 451 of 480:
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Feb 28 21:25 UTC 2007 |
Regarding #449; It's true that IMAP is more featureful than POP. But for the
simple commands that have been listed here (grabbing headers and deleting
messages without first retrieving them) POP has enough functionality.
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kingjon
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response 452 of 480:
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Feb 28 21:38 UTC 2007 |
The relevant line from my .pinerc, edited with the information from fastmail
and to remove my username:
incoming-folders=Fastmail
{mail.messagingengine.com:993/ssl/user=username@fastmail.fm}inbox,
Gmail {pop.gmail.com:995/pop3/ssl/user=username}INBOX
(All of that should go on one line, or broken after the comma, but I added the
first line break to not disrupt those of us with smaller screens. I repeat my
strong advisement to edit .pinerc through Pine's internal setup utility rather
than manually. You will need to make sure that "enable-incoming-folders" is set
to true or yes or whatever Pine uses.)
In re the IMAP vs. POP debate see:
http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/faqparts/ExternalMail.htm#ExternalIMAPVsPOP
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cross
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response 453 of 480:
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Feb 28 21:47 UTC 2007 |
Shucks; I just read the RFC's back in the day.
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keesan
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response 454 of 480:
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Feb 28 22:09 UTC 2007 |
Jonathan, did you set up pine to retrieve fastmail mail via IMAP and Gmail
via POP? There were supposed to be three other lines for fastmail/IMAP.
Fastmail said nothing about enabling anything.
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kingjon
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response 455 of 480:
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Mar 1 00:44 UTC 2007 |
What I have there will open your inbox on both fastmail and Gmail. POP doesn't
support opening other folders, so I omitted that for Gmail. For Fastmail, as I
said, I looked at the "I know how to do this myself" (or something like that)
FAQ entry rather than the "Pine" entry (specifing vi and giving keystrokes is
like specifying "Reinstall Windows" as the first solution to a problem like "my
sound doesn't work", before even checking that the speakers are plugged in)
and it didn't say anything about the other options. Looking at that entry now,
I see some things that you *may* or may not want.
To be able to access folders other than your inbox on their servers, append the
following to the line beginning "folder-collections":
----
fm-folders {mail.messagingengine.com/user=<username@fastmail.fm>/ssl}INBOX.[]
----
(I called it "fm-folders" to make it fit on one screen line on this screen.
That's just a label; you can adjust that to whatever you like.)
I'm omitting the stuff they say about "user-domain" and "inbox-path" because
those would make you not be able to read local mail with Pine.
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keesan
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response 456 of 480:
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Mar 1 02:48 UTC 2007 |
I got to the point where it listed a fastmail folder but then said it did not
exist nor could I read any of my mail here, so deleted everything. I will
try again tomorrow. I don't plan to have more than an inbox any place but
grex. I will probably have questions. Thanks for the help.
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keesan
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response 457 of 480:
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Mar 5 19:49 UTC 2007 |
Three people have now asked for help setting up spamassassin.
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keesan
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response 458 of 480:
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Mar 9 18:40 UTC 2007 |
A fourth request, who also commented that staff has not answered emails for
two years, and he is unable to get mail sent from U of M. Could the motd also
suggest asking for help in agora item 4 instead of mailing staff? Most
questions could be answered by other users instead of staff.
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maus
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response 459 of 480:
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Mar 9 20:05 UTC 2007 |
Keesan, just a tip: keeping a running scorecard of the requests you
have received does not convince a single person of anything and simply
adds to the noise. You set and arbitrary threshold of ten requests.
When you cross that threshold, please let us know.
That said, thank you for mentioning that user's concern.
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cyklone
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response 460 of 480:
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Mar 9 23:57 UTC 2007 |
Message of the Day:
Please do not email staff about problems with spam. Staff does not respond
to such requests as they do not read their mail anymore because their
mailboxes are full of spam.
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keesan
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response 461 of 480:
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Mar 10 00:00 UTC 2007 |
This last person only wanted to know how to set up a whitelist.
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slynne
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response 462 of 480:
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Mar 10 01:00 UTC 2007 |
Is there a way to set up a whitelist on grex. That would make my life a
lot easier.
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keesan
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response 463 of 480:
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Mar 10 02:59 UTC 2007 |
You can copy the one I set up for him and change the login name, and then
copy one three-line section over as many times as you have names to whitelist.
Email me. It is an extremely simple filter, without spamassassin. Sends mail
from your whitelist to your inbox and dumps the rest. Or if you prefer the
rest can go to a spam filter and you can dump it yourself. You choose.
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