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Grex > Agora46 > #181: Iraq needs more than just liberation (read $$$$) | |
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cross
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response 43 of 81:
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Aug 29 22:41 UTC 2003 |
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sj2
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response 44 of 81:
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Aug 30 05:44 UTC 2003 |
When you couldn't argue on the US-Iraq issue, you shift the arguement
to India/Kashmir. *sigh*
Maybe you don't read what I write. So I will write again. I am sharply
critical of politicians who screw people irrespective of their
nationality. So, yes, I blame the Indian politicians for the mess but
that doesn't absolve the US of the its wrong-doings.
About Punjab, the state has no signs of a separatists movement
anymore. The population participates in state and national elections
now. Enough proof that the state chose to stay in the Union and the
separatist movement had no mass support.
Further, I am prepared to argue if you wish to defend the US's doings
in Iraq/Middle-East. However, if you want to argue about
India/kashmir/Pakistan, I suggest you start another thread; I will be
glad to post there.
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pvn
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response 45 of 81:
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Aug 30 08:09 UTC 2003 |
To summarize, sj2, your arguement is that prior to GulfWar-I (lets hope
there isn't III, inshallah) Iraq had generally a modern ifrastructure
(other than just about all municipalities dumping raw sewage in the
rivers) despite the regime's practice of diverting funds towards its own
ends (even a glutton can only eat so much). Such was probably the case.
However, you seem to ignore the fact that subsequent to the temporary
halting of active hostilities (the armastice in '91) a state of 'cause
belli' (war) existed between Iraq and the US et al and technically
existed up until the recent events. Thus the degradation in
infrastructure (while at the same time personally benefiting) is clearly
the fault of the former Iraqi regime's failure to live up to what it
agreed to do. The fault/blame for the current situation is clearly that
of the former regime not the US et al (and many of the 'et al' were more
than happy to play off the book games for their own personal/national
benefit). I also think it is fair to say that the US has no territorial
ambitions in Iraq. Indeed, I'd say it doesn't even care that much about
the oil as the vast majority of that is shipped to other nations
(including India I might point out).
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sj2
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response 46 of 81:
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Aug 30 17:18 UTC 2003 |
Ahh!! I see the light. While other nations are selfish and petty, its
only the US that always heroically steps in to save the downtrodden and
liberate them from misery. And the US does all this with a spirit of
self-less devotion to the cause of humanity and democracy?? I am all
choked and teary-eyed.
Hang on, so why did this great nation systematically bomb the Iraqi
infrastructure?
http://www.rupe-india.org/34/torment.html
Why did the US create the "Highway of Death"?
http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0211/sloyan.html
The media management?
http://www.pearsoncollege.ca/media_criticism/02hreadgulfwar.html
The massacre of fleeing Iraqi soldiers? Violation of International
treaties and again destruction of Iraqi civic infrastructure?
http://www.renaissance.com.pk/mjunrefl961.html
Overlooking the disastrous consequences of the sanctions?
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19950901/950901_511rept_91.h
tml
Why did three heads of the UN Aid programme in Iraq resigned terming
the sanctions as genocide?
Can you explain these?
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cross
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response 47 of 81:
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Aug 30 17:46 UTC 2003 |
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gelinas
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response 48 of 81:
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Aug 31 03:48 UTC 2003 |
(NB: Texas seceded from the Union circa 1860 and was not allowed to leave,
just like the other States that seceded.)
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cross
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response 49 of 81:
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Aug 31 04:19 UTC 2003 |
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pvn
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response 50 of 81:
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Aug 31 05:56 UTC 2003 |
(I believe Texas can also remain and split itself up into four new
States if I am not mistaken.)
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sj2
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response 51 of 81:
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Aug 31 11:23 UTC 2003 |
Re #48, Even if I accept that several thousand Iraqi soldiers were
killed within the norms and international treaties, you've just
answered to one of the many facts of US-Iraq issue. Maybe you didn't
read the others.
Regarding RUPE's report - You're questioning their conclusions which
is fine by me. Try explaining the facts they've put in the report. Or
try explaining the facts posted in the other links.
You can assume whatever you feel like, doesn't matter to me.
"Btw- fewer people died in that attack than material, though the media
decided to portray it as a bloodbath." - Would you support that with
facts please?
"I suppose if ....... that you do." - At best, its speculation.
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cross
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response 52 of 81:
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Aug 31 17:25 UTC 2003 |
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remmers
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response 53 of 81:
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Aug 31 19:04 UTC 2003 |
How do you know he's not already doing that? Such efforts would
probably not be visible on Grex.
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cross
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response 54 of 81:
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Aug 31 21:12 UTC 2003 |
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rcurl
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response 55 of 81:
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Sep 1 00:59 UTC 2003 |
I don't see any reasons at all why a person from country A, which may have
a nest of problems of its own, shouldn't be free to criticize the problems
of country B without being taken to task for doing so. If the subject of
the discussion is the problems of country B, the discussion should stick
to the subject, and attempts to divert the discussion to irrelevances
concerning country A should be ignored.
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cross
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response 56 of 81:
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Sep 1 03:48 UTC 2003 |
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rcurl
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response 57 of 81:
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Sep 1 05:28 UTC 2003 |
Few of us can do anything to deal with anyone else's problems and it
isn't easy to deal with our own. How are you expecting anyone to deal with
their country's problems? But there is no harm in people opining and
suggesting solutions to anyone's problems and I don't think they have to
give equal time to everyone else's problems, or even those of their own
country. There is no hypocracy in this.
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cross
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response 58 of 81:
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Sep 1 14:46 UTC 2003 |
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cmcgee
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response 59 of 81:
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Sep 1 15:27 UTC 2003 |
"so any amount of opining is just letting off steam" Is it really true that
you express no opinions about anything you are not actively trying to change?
And do you count expressing an opinion as an act of change?
Seems like a very narrow use of brain power.
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cross
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response 60 of 81:
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Sep 1 18:03 UTC 2003 |
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rcurl
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response 61 of 81:
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Sep 1 18:35 UTC 2003 |
So now it is just a problem with someone else's enthusiasm? Of course, you
never rail, do you?
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slynne
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response 62 of 81:
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Sep 1 18:52 UTC 2003 |
Actually, I think it is sometimes easier to see problems in other
countries because it is easier to have an objective view of another
country. So, I think it is valuable for outsiders to point out what
those problems are. I find out a lot about the USA from reading the
foreign press. And while I *could* dismiss what they write because they
also have problems in their own countries, it seems more helpful if I
listen to them.
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micklpkl
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response 63 of 81:
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Sep 2 14:40 UTC 2003 |
To clarify resp:42 and others - Texas would not be able to leave the Union,
only to form new states, not to exceed four in number, under the annexation
resolution.
http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/ref/abouttx/annexation/
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mynxcat
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response 64 of 81:
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Sep 3 16:59 UTC 2003 |
As regards living in the country and picking up on local media
sentiment, I live in the US, and I see a definite increase in anti-US
sentiment thanks to the policies of the present govt. My two cents
worth.
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tod
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response 65 of 81:
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Sep 3 17:13 UTC 2003 |
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gull
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response 66 of 81:
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Sep 3 18:55 UTC 2003 |
"Officials here [in Baghdad] say that some basic infrastructure severely
damaged during or since the war - as well as utilities neglected under
the old regime - is expected to remain unrepaired. These include
utilities, leaving many Iraqis with worse standards of living than they
had under Saddam Hussein." --
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0903/p01s03-woiq.html
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tod
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response 67 of 81:
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Sep 3 20:27 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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