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| Author |
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| 25 new of 216 responses total. |
birdy
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response 43 of 216:
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Nov 9 19:56 UTC 2000 |
Ken - I was speaking in general, not necessarily about this election even
though I used Gore and Bush as examples. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. =)
I believe Vermont splits their two electoral votes. Since Gore and Bush had
roughly 50% each, they each got one electoral vote. I thought that was kinda
cool and a much better way to do it. According to Anne, who gave me this
info, it's up to each state to decide whether or not they want to do it this
way.
This would encourage the candidates to campaign in each state and not leave
out the "non-important" small states.
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bru
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response 44 of 216:
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Nov 9 20:03 UTC 2000 |
We are seeing it in action right now. Most of the smaller EC states went to
Bush. Most of the major population areas went to Gore. So while the vote
is fairly even, the major states are not going to get their way with the
smaller states. Now, if Gore gets Florida, the majority will get the man of
their choice, but without a mandate.
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aaron
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response 45 of 216:
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Nov 9 20:24 UTC 2000 |
The majority of whom? Gore won the popular vote.
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richard
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response 46 of 216:
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Nov 9 21:12 UTC 2000 |
with 58 of 67 counties reporting down in florida, bush lead now down to
403 votes. Nine counties left.
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keesan
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response 47 of 216:
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Nov 9 21:23 UTC 2000 |
From a translation agency, the owner of which mailed this out to possibly
100 of us translators:
[names omitted]
Hi Everyone--
I've compiled this email from many that have come to me this Thursday
morning. We need to act fast and demand a re-vote in Palm County,
Florida. Below are several numbers to call and an email site where you
can demand a re-vote. If you need some reasons and facts, read on after
these important phone numbers. The numbers may be busy, and the email
is slow--hopefully because people are contacting them en masse. But
keep trying. This has to be done fast. I actually got right through to
#3 below--Brian himself! And please pass this on to all friends and
supporters!!
1. Call the US Department of Justice and demand that there is a
re-vote
in Palm Beach County, Florida due to the mass confusion of the
Butterfly
Ballot. The number is (202) 514-2000
2. Call the US Department of Justice, Voting Section and Civil Rights
Action demanding that the Butterfly Ballot in Palm Beach County,
Florida
should be looked at and voice your formal complaint and DEMAND that
there
is a re-vote. The number is (800) 253-3931 press option 4.
3. Call Brian Heffernan at the US Department of Justice who is
handling
this ALONE and demand that there is a re-vote. The number is (202)
514-4755.
4. Through this site, you can Email Florida's Division of Election
Director, Clay Roberts.
http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/action.cfm?ItemId=9237
Thanks for your help, and may the popular vote prevail !
Karyn
More info:
20% of Buchanan's total Florida vote came from Palm Beach County; the
3,407 votes he got there were apparently way out of line with his
numbers in the rest of Florida Meanwhile in heavily Democratic Palm
Beach County, where there have been accusations that the presidential
portion of the ballot was confusing, officials announced 19,120 ballots
in the presidential race were tossed out before they were counted
because more than one candidate was picked. Only 3,783 voters made that
mistake on the U.S Senate portion of the ballot.
-----------------------
As citizens of The United States, it is our obligation not only to vote,
but to voice our opinions and DEMAND a re-vote in Palm Beach County,
Florida. PALM BEACH COUNTY WAS THE ONLY COUNTY IN THE ENTIRE STATE OF
FLORIDA TO USE THIS BUTTERFLY BALLOT. This was just stated on MSNBC.
Please look at not only your own future, but the future of your children
and your grandchildren. Please send this on to all of the people who
you know support Gore/Lieberman.
-------------------------
>From my point of view, what's needed is a public movement to demand that
Bush concede. The electoral college process has been fatally
compromised by what's happened in Florida. The "only" thing remaining
is the popular vote that Gore (oi!) won. Bush should concede and go on
vacation--perhaps to Peru.
**********************************
Hi--
Here's an addition to what I sent earlier. These email sites appear to
be easier to mail to. Send the same message of demand for a re-vote in
Palm County.
Thanks, Karyn
Palm Beach Supervisor of Elections: http://pbcelections.org/
Florida Division of Elections:
http://election.dos.state.fl.us/contact.shtml
Carole
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eeyore
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response 48 of 216:
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Nov 9 21:59 UTC 2000 |
Actually, Buchanan has publicly said that he's pretty sure that all of those
votes were not meant for him. I give him a lot of credit for that.
Heh, it was kinda fun to watch the Bush People Press Conferance....they were
stuttering over their words, and acted *really* nervous. They pointed out
that Cook County, IL, has the same type of ballot as Palm Beach. When asked
if the presidental part was the same, he stuttered, said he couldn't remember,
stuttered some more, but it eventually came out that no, it indeed was not.
Bush Players are also saying that if Gore wins, then they are going to call
into recount a few other states.
Honestly, I don't know why they do this until *ALL* of the ballots are
counted, including the mail-ins. Like the million in Cali, and the thousands
in FL.
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mdw
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response 49 of 216:
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Nov 9 22:03 UTC 2000 |
If you ask me, Buchanan came off as being more presidential than Bush.
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eeyore
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response 50 of 216:
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Nov 9 22:11 UTC 2000 |
Absolutely. The fact that he can get up and say on tv that these votes aren't
his.....that takes alot. I really respect that.
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krj
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response 51 of 216:
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Nov 9 22:26 UTC 2000 |
Buchanan has long been one of the best orators in American politics.
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aruba
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response 52 of 216:
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Nov 9 23:22 UTC 2000 |
I just can't believe this. What a ride! People are going to be talking
about this 100 years from now.
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mcnally
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response 53 of 216:
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Nov 9 23:26 UTC 2000 |
My greatest hope is that the cliffhanger suspense of this election
inspires greater numbers of voters (especially the "my vote doesn't count"
types) to participate in future elections.
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i
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response 54 of 216:
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Nov 10 01:30 UTC 2000 |
At what point will being a President of bitterly-contested legitimacy
by random fluke or judicial fiat start seeming like a bad deal to Bush
or Gore?
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jep
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response 55 of 216:
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Nov 10 02:17 UTC 2000 |
I'm sure either candidate would be *much* happier to win the election
than to lose it, whatever difficulties arise during the winner's term in
office.
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gull
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response 56 of 216:
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Nov 10 02:37 UTC 2000 |
Re #46: That's a discrepancy of something like 1,500 votes compared to the
first count. Was it really that sloppy? Or is this due to absentee ballots
continuing to come in?
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mdw
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response 57 of 216:
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Nov 10 02:48 UTC 2000 |
Supposedly, one of the differences is that in some cases, the holes
weren't completely punched out. The chaff in the way prevents the vote
from being read the first pass, but then gets pulled out through general
handling and reads when the ballot is read a 2nd time.
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polygon
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response 58 of 216:
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Nov 10 02:50 UTC 2000 |
I am shocked at how sloppy Florida's election practices appear to be.
Here in Michigan, I have been through a number of recounts, both as an
official election worker, as a campaign volunteer, and as a campaign
manager. These recounts were for offices like district judge and county
commissioner, and most of the recounted precincts used punch cards like
the ones in Florida.
In all of these recounts, there were at most one or two votes changed IN
THE ENTIRE RECOUNT. In fact, the low likelihood of changing any votes at
all, let alone enough to affect the outcome, have tended to deter
candidates (at least in Ingham County) from asking for recounts. If you
lose by as much as 40 votes, what's the point of a recount to find out --
if you're lucky -- that it was actually 39?
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polygon
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response 59 of 216:
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Nov 10 02:51 UTC 2000 |
Re 57. But we had punch cards in Michigan, and that didn't seem to
be much of a problem. Maybe they have shoddy punch cards in Florida.
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polygon
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response 60 of 216:
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Nov 10 02:52 UTC 2000 |
Also, I'm hearing things like "finding 400 ballots that weren't counted
the first time." Again, hard to conceive of that happening around here.
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mdw
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response 61 of 216:
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Nov 10 02:58 UTC 2000 |
Too many senior citizens? (Sorry, couldn't resist...)
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richard
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response 62 of 216:
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Nov 10 05:13 UTC 2000 |
the Gore campaign is planning on asking for a second recount in the key
counties, done *by hand* Wonder how long it would take to go through a
couple million ballots one by one by hand?! And how many more ballots
would they find not counted that the machines missed.
Why are paper ballots even used anymore these days? It never occurred
to these people to use computer terminals in the booths, where you can
just go in and point and click your votes?
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beeswing
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response 63 of 216:
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Nov 10 05:20 UTC 2000 |
I thought the same thing Marcus did :)
At this point I'm so sick of everything I don't care who wins anymore.
I saw Buchanan on TV today and he actually said there was no way he
could have gotten that many votes :)
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richard
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response 64 of 216:
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Nov 10 05:22 UTC 2000 |
polygon, have you ever in all your experience heard of a case where
19,000 ballots were disqualified in one county alone?
I guess the question is, then, do these citizens down in palm beach
countyhave the consitutional right to be allowed to cast their votes
correctly, IF it was no fault of their own that their ballots gotcast
incorrectly. Gonna be one heck of a court case!
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gelinas
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response 65 of 216:
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Nov 10 05:52 UTC 2000 |
Re #17: No, I didn't miss your earlier post. However, that press release
did not include the text of the proposed amendment. So I wrote my own, as
the starting point for a debate of the subject. See Item 147.
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krj
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response 66 of 216:
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Nov 10 05:59 UTC 2000 |
One thought I had tonight: folks who work for the companies which sell the
punched card voting systems had better be looking for new jobs.
I doubt any jurisdiction would ever buy into such a system again
after the outcry in Palm Beach County, and jurisdictions which have
been using the punch-card systems will start looking for excuses to
dump them.
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senna
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response 67 of 216:
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Nov 10 06:39 UTC 2000 |
The electoral college has worked for years and, hopefully, will continue to
do so. One of the reasons it helps people in low population states it gives
them *something* to win. A single voter in Kansas is not going to feel very
enthusiastic if their vote is merely one in 100 million, but they can still
work toward their state's victory in electoral votes. They may not be much,
but they add up, and each state gets at least 3 to play with. Frankly, states
like Hawaii and Alaska might as well not be in the country at all if there's
no electoral college.
The democrats faced the distinct possibility that they were going to win the
election on electoral votes and lose the popular vote, and I have little doubt
that both sides were preparing various scenarios to deal with that. The roles
are reversed, and suddenly it's a bad thing for the dems. Interesting. From
what I've seen, though, the Dems are primarily looking at Floridian
irregularities, and while they'll definitely bring up Bush's loss of the
popular vote in critique, it looks like they aren't going to spend the next
four years acting like he's an illegitimate president. Decently classy.
I think it's notable that the 92 and 96 elections would probably have
had radically different outcomes if the electoral college hadn't been in
place.
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