response 4 of 66:

Nov 11 02:38 UTC 2001

Interesting that you both mention bread machines, as the impetus for this item
was the bread machine I just found for $10 at Kiwanis.  (It may have been
donated because the previous owner never thought to clean out the oven).  Jim
looked at it and laughed - it makes only half a loaf instead of 2-3.  Good
idea about maybe using it just to mix the bread but does it work as well as
hand kneading and is it no harder to clean than a bowl and spoon?  How much
actual work (time spent loading and cleaning up) is it for 2 loaves of bread?
Jim sometimes toasts peanuts or almonds in the toaster oven, or cooks a
squash, but the microwave oven is a bit faster at both.
        Why is the oven baked better tasting?

response 6 of 66:

Nov 11 15:00 UTC 2001

It sounds like you don't even need a stove, with all those appliances!
You can get another cord for $1 at Kiwanis Sat. 9-12, hardware dept.
And they also have some toaster ovens, pre-cleaned, maybe $5.
Jim fixed a blender but has not found any use for it.  We were going to make
tofu with it (you soak and then blend the beans) but his flour grinder or meat
grinder are easier to use.  He has a food processor that he converted to
process styrofoam cups into wall insulation.  For food, we have a couple of
shredders (to make borshch and potato pancakes once or twice a year).  We have
a Squeezo and a Victoria juicer with apple and grape spirals that go inside
a perforated cone, and the seeds come out the end and the juice out the sides.
What I would like is something easier to use than the hand flour grinder -
some day we will hook it up to an exercise bike.  Can anyone think of a good
design for a bread kneader using the same power source?
That might also be hooked up to the juicers and meat grinder and shredders,
so we could have both hands free to feed things into them.

My kitchen was modernized around 1950 and had three duplex outlets.  We
plugged in the refrigerator and microwave into one, a clock into another, and
a better ceiling light into the third, leaving two outlets for the toaster
oven, radio, outdoor extension cord for the hotplate, electric frying pan,
etc.  Jim added one duplex outlet and I got a stove with an outlet, into which
I plugged another ceiling light.  Then I put a 3-outlet adaptor into it so
we can test boomboxes and get light at the same time.  How many kitchen
outlets would be ideal?

response 8 of 66:

Nov 12 16:18 UTC 2001

I suspect it's all convenience, time & muscle-energy saved.  I made soap
jelly last week in the blender, using the tiny bits left over from a son's
attempts at soap-carving, and I'm not sure *how* I would have applied
hand power to produce a similar result, but probably it could have been
done.

When I bake the bread-machine's dough, the result is moister & softer.
My texture varies -- for slicing, the machine result holds together better
-- but it's as if the machine overbakes it somewhat.  Our earlier machines
didn't do that so much, and one with adjustments for kind of flour might
do better.

It takes ten minutes at most to collect ingredients and parcel them out at
the beginning of a day's baking (hottish water & honey into the loaf pan, 
dry ingredients into the pan and also into a separate jar for each 
intended subsequent loaf), then start the machine.  About two hours later,
or whenever I notice that the dough is ready thereafter, I grease a loaf
pan, dump out the batter, put in warm water & honey & a jar's contents of
dry ingredients, & restart the machine.

Cleanup is fairly quick if I do it right away, but I'm usually in the middle
of something else, so I pull off the dough hook and half-fill the pan with
water.  Then later cleanup, when all the bits of dough are saturated with
water, goes very quickly (maybe a minute).  I keep a chopstick on the 
sink shelf for getting out any dough from inside the dough hook.

response 10 of 66:

Nov 13 04:17 UTC 2001

A bright bread machine cycles the heating element on & off (probably at
a lower power than "bake") to get the right temp. for dough to rise.

response 12 of 66:

Nov 13 20:51 UTC 2001

Mine has a thermostat.  Dunno about yours.

response 14 of 66:

Nov 15 02:20 UTC 2001

I should add another appliance that I forgot in my earlier reply, but which
gets a workout in our kitchen: the yogurt maker (that refugee from the 1970s).

response 16 of 66:

Nov 15 13:50 UTC 2001

That one does not sound very cryptic, to me.

response 18 of 66:

Nov 17 01:15 UTC 2001

Re:  #16
That's the text that the book gives for when the machine's little
display is "E:02", flashing on & off.

response 20 of 66:

Nov 17 19:40 UTC 2001

A whole army of electric servants?  We gave away my mother's and grandmothers
electric can opener and knife and waffle iron and mixer.   

The bread machine we have took 2 hours 15 minutes.  It mixed up our flour and
water into not one but two little balls of dough, so I unplugged it and took
the dough out and kneaded it by handed into one big ball.  I then watched it
'kneading', which involves slamming the ball against the side of the pot for
about 20 minutes.  A short rise, then it baked on medium and overbaked.  It
half-filled the pot (possibly because I forgot to put in 85 degree water) and
came out like a very hard slightly burnt roll.  Next time I will try Light.
It was also a lot tougher than hand-made bread and a bit dry.

response 22 of 66:

Nov 17 20:14 UTC 2001

These are reasons why I don't buy electronics at place like Kiawonas.  I buy
them new from stores with return policies.  Buying used appliances is a bit
like buying used cars.  They can be ok and work fine, but more often then I
like you are just buying someone else's problems that they felt too quilty
about or were too cheap to pay the price of throwing away before they bought
new, working units.

response 24 of 66:

Nov 18 03:42 UTC 2001

The machine says it is supposed to take 2 hours 15 minutes and it did.
This seems rather short to me but it did what it said it would.
I will try more water, and warmer water.  Since we don't know whether we even
want to own a bread machine, $10 seems like a better amount to risk (they said
I could bring it back if it did not work) than $100 or whatever the new ones
go for.  I think I prefer the hand-kneaded double-rise bread we make but this
was interesting and we will try a few more times to get it better.

response 26 of 66:

Nov 19 16:57 UTC 2001

Jim is making another batch of bread.  2.5 cups flour 7/8 cup water (a bit
more water than before) and warm this time.  He reports that the dough again
formed two balls but after a while they coalesced into one.  Light instead
of medium this time.  What is the most flour a 1 pound bread maker can
actually mix?  We suspect the whole grain flour is not going to rise enough
to fill the pan even with warm water - maybe more yeast is needed because of
the relatively short rise for this machine?  I suppose we could add a bit of
honey to accelerate the process.

response 28 of 66:

Nov 20 15:09 UTC 2001

Our friend who makes successful whole wheat bread says his machine has a 3
hour or a 5 hour whole wheat cycle. Ours does not.  He uses 2 1/4 cups flour,
1 cup water (more than we used) and some honey (to speed up yeast
reproduction) and gluten (to make sure it rises higher as the bread machine
probably does not knead as well as hands and kneading develops gluten). He
also said we could take the dough out after kneading, let it rise a few times
in a warm place and bake it in the oven.  By that point we may as well make
a larger recipe and knead it by hand.  I might mix the yeast, water, and honey
half an hour before starting the machine to give them a head start.