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Grex > Agora56 > #105: State: Wal-Mart must carry emergency contraception | |
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| Author |
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| 25 new of 526 responses total. |
klg
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response 395 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:32 UTC 2006 |
The ACLU takes arguments to the extreme. And aren't extremists
dangerous?
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nharmon
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response 396 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:33 UTC 2006 |
Marc, I see it as the ACLU probably attracts more liberal people to
their cause, and as a result their leadership tends to be people who
bring along ideals from their respective political party. These ideals
then filter into the ACLU's official policy, which ends up upsetting
members with somewhat conservative points of view, and you have a cycle
of leadership that becomes more liberal with each generation.
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richard
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response 397 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:36 UTC 2006 |
klg the aclu does not take arguments to the extreme, you are being brainwashed
by fox news again. The ACLU looks at the Bill of Rights, and looks at all
cases where american citizen's rights might be violated. If you do not have
groups like the ACLU and others zealously defending citizens rights, you are
empowering authorities to violate those rights over and over. In this
society, where rights are commonly trampled upon, you need a watchdog group
like the ACLU. There is nothing wrong with that they do and the role they
play.
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klg
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response 398 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:39 UTC 2006 |
"and looks at ALL cases where american citizen's rights MIGHT be
violated"
Thanks for proving my point that the ACLU is extremist.
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richard
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response 399 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:41 UTC 2006 |
nharmon the political views of the ACLU's leadership do not matter because
the ACLU's role is not political. Defending the rights guaranteed under the
law is not a political job. The ACLU is a group of lawyers who offer advice
based upon accepted legal opinions and precedent. Their personal political
views are irrelevant. .
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richard
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response 400 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:42 UTC 2006 |
re #398 what is extremist about looking at all cases where a citizen's rights
might have been violated? You view it as less extremist if they picked and
chose who they represented or when they decided to act? That would be more
extremist in my opinion.
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rcurl
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response 401 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:50 UTC 2006 |
I was planning on making the point Marc did in #393: ACLU and Democrat
positions appear to allign on many issues simply because Democrats tend to
favor civil rights for all regardless of their opinions. Republicans have
traditionally tried to suppress opinions that they don't like. Which party
tries hardest to a) condemn flag burning, b) suppress Nazi, Communist or
(now) radical Muslim ideas from being expressed, c) deny women personal
rights, etc?
Re #395: I've never seen the ACLU take "arguments to the extreme". Give us
some examples of what you think are "extreme"? The "far right" appear to
be the ones that think that the Bill of Rights in the Constitution is
"extreme".
Re #396: "more liberal" is good. Consider
liberal (adj). 1. Possessing or manifesting a free and generous heart;
bountiful. 2. Appropriate or fitting for a broad and enlightened mind. 3.
Free from narrowness, bigotry, or bondage to authority or creed, as in
religion; inclined to democratic or republican ideas, as opposed to
monarchical or aristocratic, as in politics; broad, popular, progressive.
illiberal (adj.). 1. Not liberal; not generous in giving; parsimonious. 2.
Narrow-minded. 3. Lacking breadth of culture; hence, vulgar.
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richard
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response 402 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:52 UTC 2006 |
The ACLU defended Rush Limbaugh because his Constitutional rights were being
violated. If the ACLU was extremist, they would have declined to spend their
money representing him because he hates them and he can afford his own
lawyers. But they interceded because its what they do as a Constitutional
watchdog, and it frankly didn't matter who he was.
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tod
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response 403 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:53 UTC 2006 |
Hard hitting news
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klg
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response 404 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:58 UTC 2006 |
1. When did the ACLU defend a person's right to rent his private
property to whomever he wanted?
2. You mean the proliferation of speech codes on college campuses
(which are heavily dominated by liberals) is a manisfestation of the
liberal tradition of promoting the freedom of individuals to express
their opinions? (Coulda fooled me?)
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richard
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response 405 of 526:
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Mar 6 18:01 UTC 2006 |
college campuses are not "heavily dominated by liberals", that is another myth
that shows klg is being brainwashed by the fox news channel. In fact college
campus administrations often reflect the politics of those parts of the
country. Southern campuses have conservative administrations as often as not,
Ivy Leagues liberal administrations.
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rcurl
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response 406 of 526:
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Mar 6 18:04 UTC 2006 |
Thank you for the opening to show how mistaken you are, KLG:
"Many universities, under pressure to respond to the concerns of those who
are the objects of hate, have adopted codes or policies prohibiting speech
that offends any group based on race, gender, ethnicity, religion or
sexual orientation.
"That's the wrong response, well-meaning or not. The First Amendment to
the United States Constitution protects speech no matter how offensive its
content. Speech codes adopted by government-financed state colleges and
universities amount to government censorship, in violation of the
Constitution. And the ACLU believes that all campuses should adhere to
First Amendment principles because academic freedom is a bedrock of
education in a free society."
http://www.aclu.org/studentsrights/expression/12808pub19941231.html
Now, give us the details about that "right to rent" issue instead of just
spewing accusations.
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richard
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response 407 of 526:
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Mar 6 18:06 UTC 2006 |
klg just answer this question:
"Do you believe that an american citizen's right to free speech ought to be
protected no matter how offensive it is what that citizen is saying?"
yes or no?
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richard
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response 408 of 526:
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Mar 6 18:50 UTC 2006 |
The ACLU defends freedom and liberty.
The ACLU agrees with Barry Goldwater:
"Extremism in pursuit of liberty is not a vice"
:)
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crimson
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response 409 of 526:
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Mar 6 19:23 UTC 2006 |
While I agree, it depends on how you define "extremism," "liberty," and
"vice."
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klg
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response 410 of 526:
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Mar 6 20:26 UTC 2006 |
Oh, RW. Is that why Larry Summers resigned?
Is the ACLU rushing around the country filing suits against speech
codes?
"Academia, Stuck To the Left
"By George Will--Townhall.com--11/28/04
Republicans Outnumbered In Academia, Studies Find, New York Times, Nov.
18
"WASHINGTON -- Oh, well, if studies say so. The great secret is out:
liberals dominate campuses. Coming soon: ``Moon Implicated in Tides,
Studies Find.''
"One study of 1,000 professors finds that Democrats outnumber
Republicans at least seven to one in the humanities and social
sciences. That imbalance, more than double what it was three decades
ago, is intensifying because younger professors are more uniformly
liberal than the older cohort that is retiring.
"Another study, of voter registrations records, including those of
professors in engineering and the hard sciences, found nine Democrats
for every Republican at Berkeley and Stanford. Among younger
professors, there were 183 Democrats, six Republicans.
"But we essentially knew this even before The American Enterprise
magazine reported in 2002 of examinations of voting records in various
college communities. Some findings about professors registered with the
two major parties or with liberal or conservative minor parties:
"Cornell: 166 liberals, 6 conservatives.
"Stanford: 151 liberals, 17 conservatives.
"Colorado: 116 liberals, 5 conservatives.
"UCLA: 141 liberals, 9 conservatives.
"The nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics reports that in 2004,
of the top five institutions in terms of employee per capita
contributions to presidential candidates, the third, fourth and fifth
were Time Warner, Goldman Sachs and Microsoft. The top two were the
California university system and Harvard, both of which gave about 19
times more money to John Kerry than to George Bush. . . ."
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jep
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response 411 of 526:
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Mar 6 20:48 UTC 2006 |
The ACLU aggressively defends the broadest interpretations of all
rights? Like the 2nd amendment?
I know the standard response to this standard accusation, but I don't
accept it. The ACLU picks and chooses the rights it supports.
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marcvh
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response 412 of 526:
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Mar 6 21:12 UTC 2006 |
Out of curiousity, are there any organizations which you support and
you feel do a better job of supporting all rights? The ACLJ? The
NRA? The SPLC? Amnesty International? Anyone?
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richard
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response 413 of 526:
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Mar 6 21:15 UTC 2006 |
The ACLU defended Larry Flynt, publisher of Hustler, in the famous case
where Jerry Falwell was suing him for slander that ended up in the Supreme
Court.
Years later, the ACLU defended JERRY FALWELL in a case where the state of
Virginia said churches couldn't incorporate.
They won both cases.
\.
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richard
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response 414 of 526:
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Mar 6 21:17 UTC 2006 |
in fact the ACLU has defended many many religious organizations. Freedom of
Religion is a protected freedom you know.
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nharmon
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response 415 of 526:
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Mar 6 21:27 UTC 2006 |
I like the work the NRA and SPLC do. In fact, I subscribe to
SPLC's "Intelligence Report". In the NRA's case, they do a good job
staying non-partisan through endorsing democratic candidates over
republican candidates in cases where the democrate is stronger on 2nd
amendment rights. John Dingell is one such candidate.
The SPLC also are not afraid of exposing the KKK, skinheads and radical
environmental extremists for the terrorists they are.
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nharmon
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response 416 of 526:
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Mar 6 21:29 UTC 2006 |
Another thing I like about the NRA: They do none of their own studies.
They rely totally upon unbiased third party studies such as those from
the Justice Department.
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richard
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response 417 of 526:
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Mar 6 21:29 UTC 2006 |
see now the NRA takes the broadest possible interpretation of the second
amendment. When the NRA does that its all right, but when the ACLU makes
broad interpretations, its called extremist. Its ridiculous.
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slynne
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response 418 of 526:
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Mar 6 21:30 UTC 2006 |
Hmmm...interesting.
Let's assume that the article in resp:410 is true (It very well may be
but I still have some doubt because of the source). It brings up some
interesting thoughts.
Are there more liberal college professors because conservatives are
discriminated against?
Are liberals more likely to choose acedemia than conservatives?
College professors are highly educated. Are non-college professors with
simiar education levels also more likely to be on the left? And if so,
does that mean that the more education you have, the more likely you
are to be progressive in your thought?
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richard
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response 419 of 526:
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Mar 6 21:31 UTC 2006 |
The NRA also openly contributes to and backs candidats. The ACLU has never
and will never endorse candidates for political office. Because the NRA is
a distinctly political organization while the ACLU is not.
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