|
|
| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 203 responses total. |
twenex
|
|
response 39 of 203:
| 
Jan 31 20:58 UTC 2007 |
On the question of Linux's elitism - I've used computers a long time - hell
worked with them even. Installing and configuring Linux is not a piece of
cake, at least it wasn't abut 6 years ago, when I was gung ho about it.
Are you serious? That's like me having an opinion of India based on reports
about it from the British East India Company. And then you walk into Delhi and
people have got cars, omg.
Too
many tweaks and changes needed to be made. compared to a Windows installation
which usually just meant popping in hte CD and almost everything works - not
everything, I'll admit.
Actually I find it's usually Windows that needs to be punched and kicked into a
usable state, but maybe that's just me. And the reason why "everything works"
in Windows is because (a) everyone writes drivers for it and (b) Windows
developers just LOVE the kitchen sink.
I don't know if Linux has changed enough to make it easier to install, I gave
up trying - but expecting a lay person to be a "geek" to use your application
isn't going to help you. If they've made changes in the last 8 years to make
things easier, well more power to them, but maybe they just missed the boat.
Linux may not be elitist anymore, but maybe too little too late.
And you keep missing the point that the Windows (or at least Microsoft)
monopoly existed BEFORE Linux came along.
Simple lesson - give the user what he wants and in a manner he can use it.
The easier the better. Ease of use is appreciated over functionality most
times.
Which is exactly why I refuse to be patronised by Microsoft crap. "Do you want
to put this in the trash?" "No, I just moved the pointer over to the icon,
clicked on it, dragged it over to the recycle bin and let go FOR A LAUGH!"
For fuck's sake.
|
twenex
|
|
response 40 of 203:
|
Jan 31 20:59 UTC 2007 |
Re: #39. Nate slipped. I'd add that Ubuntu is not the only one making great
strides in this area.
Oh, and PLEASE don't anyone go on about asking why there are so many
distributions. Why are there so many car makers?! Because people want choice!
|
nharmon
|
|
response 41 of 203:
|
Jan 31 21:04 UTC 2007 |
There are so many distributions because it's free. People can create
distros to meet as wide or as specific goals as necessary. There are
home firewall distros, VoIP distros, desktop distros, LAMP distros
(That's Linux Apache MySQL PHP for daemon9), the list goes on.
I'm not going to bash anybody on questioning Linux's place, but just
that Jeff's frustration is with having to deal with all of the FUD that
has been spread about Linux.
|
twenex
|
|
response 42 of 203:
|
Jan 31 21:07 UTC 2007 |
Yay, someone said it. Thanks nate!
|
remmers
|
|
response 43 of 203:
|
Jan 31 21:12 UTC 2007 |
If ease of use were the determining factor, Mac OS X would be giving
Windows a real drubbing.
Speaking personally - I've used Windows, Linux, and OS X to try to get
serious work done, and in the ease of use department Windows comes in a
poor third.
Windows may (currently) have overwhelming dominance in the desktop/laptop
world, but in the server world it's a different story.
|
twenex
|
|
response 44 of 203:
|
Jan 31 21:16 UTC 2007 |
Indeed. Did you know that a report cited by Groklaw says that the use of Unix
is actually GROWING on servers?! Not Linux - UNIX!
As someone on OSNews said, the reason why Linux and UNIX use is growing on
servers is because enough enterprises made a big noise to pc manufacturers
about getting that Windows crap off the machines before they supplied them.
I don't plan on buying machines from people who don't give you the choice,
in future. I would encourage anyone else who has the slightest interest in
liberating people from The Beast to do the same.
|
jep
|
|
response 45 of 203:
|
Jan 31 21:19 UTC 2007 |
Windows works well enough that an average person can buy a computer at
Wal-Mart, and get an Internet connection set up by a trainee from
Comcast, and be able to use the Internet, type and print papers, play
games, and watch movies.
The Macintosh works just as well for these purposes, but it costs more
and it isn't available at Wal-Mart.
I have been a Unix hobbyist and Unix professional for around 20 years.
I pretty well understand the uses and advantages of Linux. I would not
say an average person can do what they want to do, without much
assistance, using Linux. Not yet.
|
twenex
|
|
response 46 of 203:
|
Jan 31 21:20 UTC 2007 |
Shouldn't this item be linked to the systems conf, or something? Naturally
I believe that being associated with Windows is beneath Linux' dignity, but
'systems' already includes all three.
|
twenex
|
|
response 47 of 203:
|
Jan 31 21:25 UTC 2007 |
Re: #45. I would disagree but, whether I would or wouldn't is not the point.
What I have been trying to get over is the fact that, just as you can walk
into any high street store and buy from a number of pc vendors, without
problems, you should be able to have your pc of choice installed with your
*os* of choice, or at least supplied with none so that you can install your
own later, WITHOUT hassles, WITHOUT being fed rubbish like "it's illegal to
supply a pc without an OS", and preferably (though one must make allowances
for the mental capacity of the staff in such places) WITHOUT being bloody-well
laughed at.
Not that the last point is one I insist on, however. I just laugh back at
them behind their backs, louder and harder.
|
cross
|
|
response 48 of 203:
|
Jan 31 21:41 UTC 2007 |
I'm not particularly impressed with Linux; it suffers from a similar ``kitchen
sink'' mentality that also afflicts Windows. The BSD distributions are
cleaner, but not as featureful in the things that matter to end-users. Plan
9 is cleaner still, but definitely not up to snuff in terms of the user
experience.
|
cross
|
|
response 49 of 203:
|
Jan 31 21:45 UTC 2007 |
Regarding #46; Sure! Link it over; you're a fairwitness there. :-)
|
richard
|
|
response 50 of 203:
|
Jan 31 21:45 UTC 2007 |
cross said: ( Microsoft has almost run its course:
they're going to implode under their own weight)
Which may be why Bill Gates is leaving Microsoft after next year to
concentrate on his philanthropy. He may be getting out while the
getting is good.
|
cross
|
|
response 51 of 203:
|
Jan 31 21:46 UTC 2007 |
Perhaps. Actually, I've seen Gates speak. I was, honestly, quite impressed
with his philanthropic activities. He was also quite an engaging speaker,
even if I disagree with his interpretation of technology.
|
twenex
|
|
response 52 of 203:
|
Jan 31 21:50 UTC 2007 |
I agree, although I would note you can pare Linux down a lot. Between Slackware
and Gentoo you probably have the makings of distros that will please BSD people
- these days you can probably add Arch Linux to the mix, too. Besides, if you
could get OS-free PC's from anywhere, then by definition you could put
whatever OS you want on it and not have to pay anyone for the privilege.
My main problem with the BSD's is a relative lack of hardware support compared
to Linux.
Of course Linux distributions suffer from the kitchen sink mentality for
precisely the fact that they're going after Windows users. If it weren't for
hardware issues, on the one hand, and licensing issues, on the other, that
would be sufficient reason to agree with the statement that "BSD is for people
who love Unix; Linux is for people who hate Windows/Microsoft" - though I
would note that JUST because you hate Microsoft, it does not necessarily
follow that there will be a viable alternative. It just so happens that they
do exist.
|
twenex
|
|
response 53 of 203:
|
Jan 31 21:51 UTC 2007 |
Re: #49. Good point!
Re: #50, #51. I have taken the rather unpopular stance that since I consider
most of Gates's gains ill-gotten, I cannot support his "philanthropic" work.
|
twenex
|
|
response 54 of 203:
|
Jan 31 22:16 UTC 2007 |
I linked this item.
Sorry if I've seemed rude in it; it's just one of those subjects that REALLY
gets my goat.
|
richard
|
|
response 55 of 203:
|
Jan 31 22:41 UTC 2007 |
re #53 oh c'mon twenex, you don't support Gates' philanthropic work
because he's a flaming liberal. He and his buddy, the world's second
richest man warren buffett, are both supporting Barack Obama in fact
|
twenex
|
|
response 56 of 203:
|
Jan 31 22:43 UTC 2007 |
re #53 oh c'mon twenex, you don't support Gates' philanthropic work
because he's a flaming liberal.
WTF?
|
kingjon
|
|
response 57 of 203:
|
Jan 31 23:20 UTC 2007 |
Re #48: It's kind of hard to get features that the end-user wants without
getting the "kitchen sink" mentality -- particularly, it seems to me, because
what one end user wants will be useless (and "kitchen sink" material) to
another.
|
twenex
|
|
response 58 of 203:
|
Jan 31 23:30 UTC 2007 |
Correct.
|
mcnally
|
|
response 59 of 203:
|
Feb 1 01:19 UTC 2007 |
re #56: Bad news, twenex. Richard knows your secret about all that
fundraising work you do for the National Front. It's just like how
he figured out I am a far-right libertarian. He's uncanny..
|
twenex
|
|
response 60 of 203:
|
Feb 1 01:24 UTC 2007 |
Snigger.
|
vivekm1234
|
|
response 61 of 203:
|
Feb 1 08:03 UTC 2007 |
Ideally what the Linux guys ought to do is just clone the Windows Desktop look
and feel.It's a Linux but the user shouldn't be able to tell the difference
in terms of the GUI..not sure though since MS might have patented their look..
or copyright infringement? Can it be done?
The next thing would be a MS Office clone. I think the main problem here is
user inertia. People have spent time and energy learning to use MS-stuff and
they don't want to sit around and learn something new when there is not
much of a added advantage to it..
It's a little like Grex in a way :) great ideals but who wants to figure
out the syntax when gardenweb.com requires no additional brain work. I agree
with what Mynx has to say.
I think Linux's advantages will show up as it ages..the fact that MS's Vista
is a bunch of security patches and eye-candy is very indicative, though
Linux has a lot of bloat in the GUI (KDE/Gnome) and OpenOffice sucks..
Ideally Linux/MS should come out with something like 2K+MS-Office+Nero+WinRar
+Dict+FF+Thunderbird+Putty+MPlayer(Linux port)+WinAmp+RASPPPoE before
adding any more idiotic eye-candy.
|
vivekm1234
|
|
response 62 of 203:
|
Feb 1 08:09 UTC 2007 |
Ooo check this out
http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=173462&ssid=39022
And if you use Wine with MSWord <heaven :)>
|
twenex
|
|
response 63 of 203:
|
Feb 1 09:22 UTC 2007 |
Re: #61. Boy, are you out of touch.
"Linux has a lot of bloat and OpenOffice sucks"- you DO know that Vista
requires FIFTEEN gigabytes of hard-drive space and that the newest version
of Microsoft Office has a *completely* different interface, right? And how
exactly does OpenOffice suck?
|
