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Grex > Agora56 > #84: Newspaper in Denmark prints cartoon pics of Mohammed | |
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| 25 new of 432 responses total. |
tod
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response 388 of 432:
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Feb 21 19:09 UTC 2006 |
re #387
Exactly
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jadecat
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response 389 of 432:
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Feb 21 19:19 UTC 2006 |
resp:375 Well said.
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bru
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response 390 of 432:
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Feb 21 20:27 UTC 2006 |
Hey, if you want to post the pictures, post the pictures. Thats what free
speech is all about. You have the power to put a link tot he pictures in the
Agora. Do so.
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tod
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response 391 of 432:
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Feb 21 20:33 UTC 2006 |
I've got the pictures but I also don't feel comfortable expressing my bigotry
that way.
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cyklone
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response 392 of 432:
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Feb 21 23:52 UTC 2006 |
Re #372: Don't compound things by turning into richard or kludgie and putting
words in my mouth. I specifically disagreed with your ridiculous analogy to
a barbershop.
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scholar
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response 393 of 432:
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Feb 22 02:41 UTC 2006 |
I have very little respect for jep, and I would revel (to a limited extent)
in some bad things that could happen to him.
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naftee
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response 394 of 432:
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Feb 22 05:27 UTC 2006 |
ok so it was resp:366 where this item turned into talk about GreX staff
shit, son. GreX's items turn tables faster than a spinning restaurant.
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mcnally
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response 395 of 432:
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Feb 22 05:46 UTC 2006 |
re #393: Hows the view from that glass house?
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naftee
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response 396 of 432:
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Feb 22 05:57 UTC 2006 |
those alaskans live in igloos !
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happyboy
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response 397 of 432:
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Feb 22 05:58 UTC 2006 |
they eat eskimo pies hahahah
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tod
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response 398 of 432:
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Feb 22 08:47 UTC 2006 |
Not all Siwash..some eat klondike pie!
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mary
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response 399 of 432:
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Feb 22 13:01 UTC 2006 |
I read an interesting blog posting, on this subject at:
http://tinyurl.com/qncq9
I especially found rule #2 interesting, which I'll paste here:
"Make sure that you are an equal opportunity satirist. The Guardian
reports that Jyllands-Posten refused to run cartoons lampooning Jesus
Christ three years ago. The Sunday editor, Jens Kaiser, gave this
rationale at the time: "I don't think Jyllands-Posten's readers will enjoy
the drawings. As a matter of fact, I think that they will provoke an
outcry. Therefore, I will not use them." The problem here is that by
running only cartoons focused on Muhammad, the paper is making clear,
however unintentionally, that the point of the satire is not religious but
political -- expressing an attitude toward the Muslim world, rather than
laughing at fundamentalist religion in general. The quote also reinforces
rule #1 by revealing a gross insensitivity."
I think there is a lot of intentionally defamatory and ugly behavior
that hides behind the excuse of Free Speech. I don't want to see
such stuff censored but I do think we should call it as it is.
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tod
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response 400 of 432:
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Feb 22 17:18 UTC 2006 |
You know what I have a problem with? The Super Bowl. Everything about it
sends MIXED MESSAGES.
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happyboy
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response 401 of 432:
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Feb 22 19:21 UTC 2006 |
i like both teams equally as much!
/sigh
why can't they BOTH win?
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tod
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response 402 of 432:
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Feb 22 21:46 UTC 2006 |
They're both a strong ally and partner and they work very closely with us in
sharing important intelligence.
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happyboy
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response 403 of 432:
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Feb 22 22:55 UTC 2006 |
AND they back the TALIBAN!
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tod
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response 404 of 432:
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Feb 22 23:17 UTC 2006 |
UNCLE WIGGLY is secret code for TALIBAN UNOCAL
<eats note and wraps aluminum foil on head>
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happyboy
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response 405 of 432:
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Feb 22 23:23 UTC 2006 |
hamid kharzai MAYOR OF 3/4ths OF KABUL!
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tod
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response 406 of 432:
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Feb 22 23:44 UTC 2006 |
MIXED ACCOMPLISHMENTS!
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richard
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response 407 of 432:
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Feb 23 00:56 UTC 2006 |
re #399 Mary, one of the cartoons printed was depicting Jesus Christ,
Moses, Buddha and Mohammed in front of a television showing two groups
of people about to start a fight. The caption read "We did not teach
them to do that..." So obviously it is in err to call Jyllands-Posten
bigoted. They refused the earlier cartoons about Jesus probably
because there was no larger statement to make. Those aren't the kind
of cartoons you publish with just the intent to be entertaining. With
these cartoons they were trying to make a larger statement, not just be
entertaining.
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richard
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response 408 of 432:
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Feb 23 01:08 UTC 2006 |
Other said:
"I don't think it was at all apropriate of the Jyllens-Posten to solicit
and publish these cartoons originally, but I do think it entirely
appropriate once the response gathered steam that other news agencies
republished them to inform their constituencies about the conflict and
its causes. Grex has no such role or responsibility, and for Grex to
republish these cartoons would be an act of unvarnished affrontery which
serves no justifiable real or symbolic purpose."
I disagree. Jyllens-Posten was trying to make a political statement,
which they have the right and even the responsibility to do on their
editorial pages when they feel it is warranted. When you have a press
that cowtows and refuses to do anything that offends, you have a weak
and ineffective press. You have a press that is CONTROLLED, as opposed
to a press that is truly free.
IMO those cartoonists have now become martyrs, heroes for the cause of
free speech. History is filled with examples of mass censorship
enforced by violence and of those who fought that censorship by any
means necessary. The radical muslims think that they can FORCE
repression of these images by rioting and violence, and burning
newspaper offices down. Every act of violence, and there have been
more today, should make each of us angrier and more resolved to fight
the censorship.
Grex's raison d'etre is to provide a censorship-free conferencing
environment where anybody can say anything about anything. Surely you
can see that if any of us accept even one small attempt at censorship,
we are giving in to the system and endangering the whole ideal. These
people want to censor those cartoonists, to repress their work and to
repress any others who attempt work like theirs. Other seems to be
saying that this is okay, that nobody else need get involved in the
issue, "let'em censor" I'm saying you can't take a principled stand
against censorship if you don't stand up against it in every shape and
form.
Grex reposting those cartoons is standing up against censorship,
EXACTLY as posting that free speech blue ribbon was. If I had to
choose between not offending someone and accepting censorship, I'll
offend someone every day of the week. Because those cartoonists
freedom of speech could damn well be my own, and your own, at any given
time.
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crimson
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response 409 of 432:
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Feb 23 01:35 UTC 2006 |
#408 indulges in fallacy. There isn't an either-or between "Grex posting the
pictures on the home page" and "Grex kowtowing to censorship," or "not
offending someone and accepting censorship," either. The newspaper's editorial
page is an editorial platform for advancing the political opinions of the
newspaper; Grex's home page is not.
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other
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response 410 of 432:
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Feb 23 02:32 UTC 2006 |
Yes, #408 presents a false dichotomy. This is not a black and white
issue, and the appropriate response is definitely grey.
As an example, I -- as a strong proponent of free speech and a free
press -- can sincerely and strongly proclaim my abhorrence of the
violence and intimidation of those who would publish an image of
Mohammad, but I don't have to wear an image of Mohammad on my t-shirt to
do so.
Why should Grex (or anyone else) be held to a different standard than
that?
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cyklone
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response 411 of 432:
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Feb 23 02:34 UTC 2006 |
Yeah, Richard's out to lunch on this one. He's free to make whatever
arguments or comments he wants about the issue, on grex or elsewhere.
Hell, I'm sure he could download the cartoons and post them on myspace or
flikr. And with a little initiative, he could even host his own bbs. He's
personally free to do all those things he's asking grex to do. Go for it
Richie!
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crimson
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response 412 of 432:
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Feb 23 03:03 UTC 2006 |
He's even free to post the cartoons on his *own* Grex page. (Oh, wait --
someone's already done that!)
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