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Grex > Agora56 > #105: State: Wal-Mart must carry emergency contraception | |
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| 25 new of 526 responses total. |
richard
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response 385 of 526:
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Mar 6 16:23 UTC 2006 |
And since JEP says he voted for Kerry in the last election, I'm a bit confused
about why he'd at the same time be against the ACLU for taking "democrat"
positions...
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nharmon
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response 386 of 526:
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Mar 6 16:48 UTC 2006 |
Because the ACLU should take a non-partisan approach to protecting our
freedom. We understand that makes for poor fundraising, but that
doesn't mean we should like it.
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richard
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response 387 of 526:
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Mar 6 16:54 UTC 2006 |
the ACLU *does* take a non-partisan approach. They defend republicans as well
as democrats, and have republican members.
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richard
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response 388 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:00 UTC 2006 |
And if much of the Democratic party membership wants to take the ACLU's
positions, the ACLU has nothing whatsoever to do with that.
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klg
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response 389 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:13 UTC 2006 |
I don't think you can say that the ACLU defense of the Nazis
is "radical conservative." Look at the general attitude of liberals
attitude toward Arab despots and the latters' support for Nazism.
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richard
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response 390 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:20 UTC 2006 |
Civil Rights and Constitutional Protections don't know political boundaries.
If you are an american citizen, you have certain rights regardless of your
political views. The ACLU seeks to make sure those rights are protected,
whoever you are.
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nharmon
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response 391 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:24 UTC 2006 |
For the most part you are correct Richard. The ACLU does pretty good.
But I think we can agree that there are some issues where the ACLU
frames their stance based upon the current Democrat position. These
issues include gun control, affirmative action, and abortion rights.
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klg
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response 392 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:29 UTC 2006 |
RW is correct, so long as he travels in exclusively far left circles.
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marcvh
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response 393 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:29 UTC 2006 |
It seems weird not to at least consider the possibility that, rather than
the ACLU being a partisan political entity, perhaps the Democrats are
more supportive (or at least pay more lip service) to civil liberties
issues than the GOP, which means that the positions of other pro-civil-
liberties entities like the ACLU would happen to be aligned more often.
I'm not sure I understand this alleged linkage anyway. Does it
specifically benefit Democrats if school-sponsored prayers are not
included in public high school graduation ceremonies? If the ACLU
were demanding that the ceremony include all the students signing
loyalty oaths to Hillary Clinton then I would see your point, but
that's not at all what is happening. Indeed it seems to be the case
that ACLU actions like this often help the GOP, in the short term
anyway, by giving their base an issue to rally around.
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tod
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response 394 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:30 UTC 2006 |
re #382
When the ACLU takes a position on anything, I consider how
it benefits the Democrats over the Republicans.
That's because you can't think for yourself. I think my life would be so much
easier if I let the GOP or Dems do all the thinking for me. Baaaah Baaah.
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klg
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response 395 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:32 UTC 2006 |
The ACLU takes arguments to the extreme. And aren't extremists
dangerous?
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nharmon
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response 396 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:33 UTC 2006 |
Marc, I see it as the ACLU probably attracts more liberal people to
their cause, and as a result their leadership tends to be people who
bring along ideals from their respective political party. These ideals
then filter into the ACLU's official policy, which ends up upsetting
members with somewhat conservative points of view, and you have a cycle
of leadership that becomes more liberal with each generation.
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richard
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response 397 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:36 UTC 2006 |
klg the aclu does not take arguments to the extreme, you are being brainwashed
by fox news again. The ACLU looks at the Bill of Rights, and looks at all
cases where american citizen's rights might be violated. If you do not have
groups like the ACLU and others zealously defending citizens rights, you are
empowering authorities to violate those rights over and over. In this
society, where rights are commonly trampled upon, you need a watchdog group
like the ACLU. There is nothing wrong with that they do and the role they
play.
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klg
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response 398 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:39 UTC 2006 |
"and looks at ALL cases where american citizen's rights MIGHT be
violated"
Thanks for proving my point that the ACLU is extremist.
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richard
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response 399 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:41 UTC 2006 |
nharmon the political views of the ACLU's leadership do not matter because
the ACLU's role is not political. Defending the rights guaranteed under the
law is not a political job. The ACLU is a group of lawyers who offer advice
based upon accepted legal opinions and precedent. Their personal political
views are irrelevant. .
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richard
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response 400 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:42 UTC 2006 |
re #398 what is extremist about looking at all cases where a citizen's rights
might have been violated? You view it as less extremist if they picked and
chose who they represented or when they decided to act? That would be more
extremist in my opinion.
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rcurl
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response 401 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:50 UTC 2006 |
I was planning on making the point Marc did in #393: ACLU and Democrat
positions appear to allign on many issues simply because Democrats tend to
favor civil rights for all regardless of their opinions. Republicans have
traditionally tried to suppress opinions that they don't like. Which party
tries hardest to a) condemn flag burning, b) suppress Nazi, Communist or
(now) radical Muslim ideas from being expressed, c) deny women personal
rights, etc?
Re #395: I've never seen the ACLU take "arguments to the extreme". Give us
some examples of what you think are "extreme"? The "far right" appear to
be the ones that think that the Bill of Rights in the Constitution is
"extreme".
Re #396: "more liberal" is good. Consider
liberal (adj). 1. Possessing or manifesting a free and generous heart;
bountiful. 2. Appropriate or fitting for a broad and enlightened mind. 3.
Free from narrowness, bigotry, or bondage to authority or creed, as in
religion; inclined to democratic or republican ideas, as opposed to
monarchical or aristocratic, as in politics; broad, popular, progressive.
illiberal (adj.). 1. Not liberal; not generous in giving; parsimonious. 2.
Narrow-minded. 3. Lacking breadth of culture; hence, vulgar.
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richard
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response 402 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:52 UTC 2006 |
The ACLU defended Rush Limbaugh because his Constitutional rights were being
violated. If the ACLU was extremist, they would have declined to spend their
money representing him because he hates them and he can afford his own
lawyers. But they interceded because its what they do as a Constitutional
watchdog, and it frankly didn't matter who he was.
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tod
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response 403 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:53 UTC 2006 |
Hard hitting news
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klg
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response 404 of 526:
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Mar 6 17:58 UTC 2006 |
1. When did the ACLU defend a person's right to rent his private
property to whomever he wanted?
2. You mean the proliferation of speech codes on college campuses
(which are heavily dominated by liberals) is a manisfestation of the
liberal tradition of promoting the freedom of individuals to express
their opinions? (Coulda fooled me?)
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richard
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response 405 of 526:
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Mar 6 18:01 UTC 2006 |
college campuses are not "heavily dominated by liberals", that is another myth
that shows klg is being brainwashed by the fox news channel. In fact college
campus administrations often reflect the politics of those parts of the
country. Southern campuses have conservative administrations as often as not,
Ivy Leagues liberal administrations.
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rcurl
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response 406 of 526:
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Mar 6 18:04 UTC 2006 |
Thank you for the opening to show how mistaken you are, KLG:
"Many universities, under pressure to respond to the concerns of those who
are the objects of hate, have adopted codes or policies prohibiting speech
that offends any group based on race, gender, ethnicity, religion or
sexual orientation.
"That's the wrong response, well-meaning or not. The First Amendment to
the United States Constitution protects speech no matter how offensive its
content. Speech codes adopted by government-financed state colleges and
universities amount to government censorship, in violation of the
Constitution. And the ACLU believes that all campuses should adhere to
First Amendment principles because academic freedom is a bedrock of
education in a free society."
http://www.aclu.org/studentsrights/expression/12808pub19941231.html
Now, give us the details about that "right to rent" issue instead of just
spewing accusations.
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richard
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response 407 of 526:
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Mar 6 18:06 UTC 2006 |
klg just answer this question:
"Do you believe that an american citizen's right to free speech ought to be
protected no matter how offensive it is what that citizen is saying?"
yes or no?
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richard
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response 408 of 526:
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Mar 6 18:50 UTC 2006 |
The ACLU defends freedom and liberty.
The ACLU agrees with Barry Goldwater:
"Extremism in pursuit of liberty is not a vice"
:)
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crimson
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response 409 of 526:
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Mar 6 19:23 UTC 2006 |
While I agree, it depends on how you define "extremism," "liberty," and
"vice."
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